Unconfirmed: Freddy Ferrara of The Brooklyn Bridge

[t***@iwvisp.com]

1950's music newsgroup...

UNCONFIRMED - Freddy Ferrara, who had been a member of Johnny Maestro
& The Brooklyn
Bridge from the beginning, and was before that a member of the doo wop
group
The Del Satins, died yesterday.

Freddy was one of the nicest people you could ever meet. He was with
the
Bridge through all their recordings starting with the hit song "The
Worst
That Could Happen" until their last performance just a week or two
ago. In
the last couple of years he sat down during concerts due to the
effects of
an illness called amyloidosis (not sure of spelling). The disease
kept
going but so did Freddy.


He will be greatly missed by many loyal fans of the group, who have
supported them since the passing of the great Johnny Maestro in March
of
last year.


Ray Arthur

[The Other Diane]

This is NOT unconfirmed! I have been friendly with The Brooklyn Bridge since
1974. You can see confirmation on the Facebook page of Lou Agiesta, the
group's drummer.
The Other Diane

Post by t***@iwvisp.com
1950's music newsgroup...
UNCONFIRMED - Freddy Ferrara, who had been a member of Johnny Maestro
& The Brooklyn
Bridge from the beginning, and was before that a member of the doo wop
group
The Del Satins, died yesterday.
Freddy was one of the nicest people you could ever meet. He was with
the
Bridge through all their recordings starting with the hit song "The
Worst
That Could Happen" until their last performance just a week or two
ago. In
the last couple of years he sat down during concerts due to the
effects of
an illness called amyloidosis (not sure of spelling). The disease
kept
going but so did Freddy.
He will be greatly missed by many loyal fans of the group, who have
supported them since the passing of the great Johnny Maestro in March
of
last year.
Ray Arthur

[BobF]

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 16:40:08 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
This is NOT unconfirmed! I have been friendly with The Brooklyn Bridge since
1974. You can see confirmation on the Facebook page of Lou Agiesta, the
group's drummer.
The Other Diane

Hi Diane,

Unless you are familiar with alt.obituaries you wouldn't know that
reports of a death remain "unconfirmed" until they are confirmed by
something like a published obituary or the media. A report in social
media, like Facebook or a blog isn't considered confirmation - mainly
because so many of those reports are based on rumours that have turned
out to be false.

[The Other Diane]

Thanks Bob. I've been here for over a decade but I rarely post. I was
unaware of that specific unwritten rule.

I realize there are folks who post rumors, but by the time I posted this, it
was common knowledge among Brooklyn Bridge fans and associates that Freddy
had died, and earlier in the day we knew he was in the hospital.

I would never post anything of which I wasn't sure.

All that Ray Arthur had to do was look for the **tiniest** iota of
information online rather than rushing to undermine a posting that way.

The Other Diane

Post by BobF
On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 16:40:08 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
This is NOT unconfirmed! I have been friendly with The Brooklyn Bridge since
1974. You can see confirmation on the Facebook page of Lou Agiesta, the
group's drummer.
The Other Diane

Hi Diane,
Unless you are familiar with alt.obituaries you wouldn't know that
reports of a death remain "unconfirmed" until they are confirmed by
something like a published obituary or the media. A report in social
media, like Facebook or a blog isn't considered confirmation - mainly
because so many of those reports are based on rumours that have turned
out to be false.
--

[BobF]

On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:07:56 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Thanks Bob. I've been here for over a decade but I rarely post. I was
unaware of that specific unwritten rule.
I realize there are folks who post rumors, but by the time I posted this, it
was common knowledge among Brooklyn Bridge fans and associates that Freddy
had died, and earlier in the day we knew he was in the hospital.
I would never post anything of which I wasn't sure.
All that Ray Arthur had to do was look for the **tiniest** iota of
information online rather than rushing to undermine a posting that way.
The Other Diane

Thanks for your gracious reply. I don't know how far Ray looked into
the report, but I did a pretty thorough Google search just to see if I
could find any verifiable confirmation and the only mention referred
back to Ray's alt.obit post.

Even now, the only mentions of his death in the first 50 hits of a
Google search for "Freddy Ferrara" is a brief mention at the end of
the History section in a Wikipedia article on Johnny Maestro & the
Brooklyn Bridge, Ray's alt.obit post and another unconfirmed report
from a message board: http://bronxboard.com/messages/63685.html

As follows:

Posted by KJ on Saturday, October 22nd 2011:

"Tonight Fred Ferrara passed away. Fred who was a foundling member of
The Del-Satins along with his brother Tom and Les Cachi were backup
singers on many of Dion's greatest hits, Ruby Baby, Runaround Sue, The
Wanderer. Later they would join together with the late Johnny Maestro
and form Brooklyn Bridge, Fred could always be seen on stage standing
next to Johnny Maestro. The Del-Satins had a hit on Laurie records
"Teardrops Follow Me" in 1962. Fred performed for nearly 50 yrs, he
was a huge part of both groups, he last performed last weekend with
The Del-Satins. RIP"


So until there is some verifiable confirmation, I'm afraid his death
remains unconfirmed IMO.

[The Other Diane]

Sorry Bob, but this particular case, under these particular circumstances,
doesn't fly with me.

Forget googling "Fred Ferrara death". With what I myself have told you, you
could go directly to the Facebook wall of the Brooklyn Bridge's drummer and
see confirmation.

You could go to the official page for Johnny Maestro and The Brooklyn
Bridge, where there may be an announcement.

You can even go to Dion DiMucci's Facebook page and see a post, I believe.

There is enough confirmation of his death AND his funeral arrangements if
you go to the sources instead of relying on a google search. If you want to
act as a moderator for this group, there's a phone number to call the
Brooklyn Bridge booking people themselves for confirmation.

I can see labeling something as "unconfirmed" if someone posts an obit about
someone really famous, but in a case like this, why would someone make up a
rumor about the death of someone whose name will not even be known except by
very specific fans?

And in case there IS someone reading alt.obits who would care to know of the
death of a member of the Brooklyn Bridge but doesn't keep up with any of
their online fan groups, then while they wait around for a newspaper article
before this obit is labeled "confirmed", they'd miss the funeral and
memorial service.

Sorry, but to me this is nitpicking at its worst. If an "insider" waits for
an "official news report" about the death of someone whose name is not
famous enough to even make it into news reports, it could be DAYS before the
rest of the caring world knows that someone has passed on.

I have friends in the show business world who are, like Fred Ferrara, not
famous enough names to make the newspapers or end up in google searches if
they should die, or maybe not for a week or even a month, but I will know
about their deaths because I'm their friend.
Should I just never post any of those?

It seems to me that Jim Beaver may have posted an obit or two through the
years before official word was out, because it was someone he knew...But I
never saw anyone change his postings to "unconfirmed." I'm sorry I'm not
"famous" like Jim Beaver, and therefore my information can't be trustworthy.
Jeesh.

The Other Diane

Post by BobF
On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:07:56 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Thanks Bob. I've been here for over a decade but I rarely post. I was
unaware of that specific unwritten rule.
I realize there are folks who post rumors, but by the time I posted this, it
was common knowledge among Brooklyn Bridge fans and associates that Freddy
had died, and earlier in the day we knew he was in the hospital.
I would never post anything of which I wasn't sure.
All that Ray Arthur had to do was look for the **tiniest** iota of
information online rather than rushing to undermine a posting that way.
The Other Diane

Thanks for your gracious reply. I don't know how far Ray looked into
the report, but I did a pretty thorough Google search just to see if I
could find any verifiable confirmation and the only mention referred
back to Ray's alt.obit post.
Even now, the only mentions of his death in the first 50 hits of a
Google search for "Freddy Ferrara" is a brief mention at the end of
the History section in a Wikipedia article on Johnny Maestro & the
Brooklyn Bridge, Ray's alt.obit post and another unconfirmed report
from a message board: http://bronxboard.com/messages/63685.html
"Tonight Fred Ferrara passed away. Fred who was a foundling member of
The Del-Satins along with his brother Tom and Les Cachi were backup
singers on many of Dion's greatest hits, Ruby Baby, Runaround Sue, The
Wanderer. Later they would join together with the late Johnny Maestro
and form Brooklyn Bridge, Fred could always be seen on stage standing
next to Johnny Maestro. The Del-Satins had a hit on Laurie records
"Teardrops Follow Me" in 1962. Fred performed for nearly 50 yrs, he
was a huge part of both groups, he last performed last weekend with
The Del-Satins. RIP"
So until there is some verifiable confirmation, I'm afraid his death
remains unconfirmed IMO.

[BobF]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 15:47:46 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Sorry Bob, but this particular case, under these particular circumstances,
doesn't fly with me.
Forget googling "Fred Ferrara death". With what I myself have told you, you
could go directly to the Facebook wall of the Brooklyn Bridge's drummer and
see confirmation.

If you read my post again you'll see that I didn't google "Fred
Ferrara death." I googled "Freddy Ferrara."

Post by The Other Diane
You could go to the official page for Johnny Maestro and The Brooklyn
Bridge, where there may be an announcement.

"May" be isn't confirmation. But please feel free to provide the
links.

Post by The Other Diane
You can even go to Dion DiMucci's Facebook page and see a post, I believe.

Nor are "I believe," Facebook pages or blogs considered confirmation.
As mentioned before, confirmation comes from a reliable source that
can be checked - like an obituary or an article in the mainstream
media.

Post by The Other Diane
There is enough confirmation of his death AND his funeral arrangements if
you go to the sources instead of relying on a google search.

Again - please provide the links instead of getting your knickers in a
twist.

Post by The Other Diane
If you want to
act as a moderator for this group, there's a phone number to call the
Brooklyn Bridge booking people themselves for confirmation.

Remember, you are the one who insists that Mr Ferrara's death was
confirmed and contradicted the OP without providing anything but
someone else's FB page. So please provide that confirmation.

Post by The Other Diane
I can see labeling something as "unconfirmed" if someone posts an obit about
someone really famous, but in a case like this, why would someone make up a
rumor about the death of someone whose name will not even be known except by
very specific fans?
And in case there IS someone reading alt.obits who would care to know of the
death of a member of the Brooklyn Bridge but doesn't keep up with any of
their online fan groups, then while they wait around for a newspaper article
before this obit is labeled "confirmed", they'd miss the funeral and
memorial service.
Sorry, but to me this is nitpicking at its worst. If an "insider" waits for
an "official news report" about the death of someone whose name is not
famous enough to even make it into news reports, it could be DAYS before the
rest of the caring world knows that someone has passed on.

Fine. I'm not at all bothered with your criticism. When you jumped on
Ray's original post with your "This is NOT unconfirmed! " you clearly
didn't know the difference. You still don't.

Post by The Other Diane
I have friends in the show business world who are, like Fred Ferrara, not
famous enough names to make the newspapers or end up in google searches if
they should die, or maybe not for a week or even a month, but I will know
about their deaths because I'm their friend.
Should I just never post any of those?

Don't be such a drama queen. Of course you should post them and label
them as UNCONFIRMED - just like the OP did. In fact, I have to wonder
why you didn't post your OWN announcement of Freddy Ferrara's death
instead of jumping on someone else's.

Post by The Other Diane
It seems to me that Jim Beaver may have posted an obit or two through the
years before official word was out, because it was someone he knew...But I
never saw anyone change his postings to "unconfirmed." I'm sorry I'm not
"famous" like Jim Beaver, and therefore my information can't be trustworthy.
Jeesh.

First of all, you've got that ass backwards. You're the one who
changed jumped on Ray's OP with your "This is NOT unconfirmed!" and
then failed to confirm it.

And it's not about who is or isn't famous. Jim Beaver has an
established record of providing reliable information. You don't.

Post by The Other Diane
The Other Diane

Please send in the Diane who doesn't have a chip on her shoulder and
doesn't top-post like a Usenet newbie.

--


"No problem at all. Just scroll down to the bottom of the page and
read backwards."

"Only thing is ... I forgot where we started."

"Maybe they don't know how."

"I wonder why so few of the others top-post?"

"That's nice."

"I'm a top-poster too."

"Yes."

"Are you a top-poster?"

"Hi."

"Hi."

A conversation between two top-posters:

[The Other Diane]

Bob,

Post by BobF
In fact, I have to wonder
why you didn't post your OWN announcement of Freddy Ferrara's death
instead of jumping on someone else's.

I DID post my own announcement of Freddy's death. The post that Ray changed
to "Unconfirmed" WAS my original post. I posted it here and in the '60s
music group, where Ray saw it and posted it here as "unconfirmed",
mistakenly saying that he saw it in the '50s group.

I did give proof, by directing you to the Facebook page of the group's
drummer, Lou Agiesta. That's not just "someone else's" Facebook page.

If you would like Lou's email address, I can send it privately to you. If
you would like the phone number for the Brooklyn Bridge's office, I can send
that to you. If you check the Facebook wall of Grace Mastrangelo, the widow
of Johnny Maestro, I BELIEVE (yes, I have not checked her wall) you should
see comments there.

The reason I wrote "I believe {there is a post on Dion's wall}" is that I
had by now
read SO much about Freddy's death, I wasn't sure exactly what I'd read
where. I have not checked The Brooklyn Bridge's page to be sure there is an
announcement because I already KNOW Freddy died. But if you go there, you
can contact them yourself.

I was intending to give you enough so you can independently check on this
obit by finding the links without any "possible corruption" by me.

And Bob, I top-post because I figure that if someone is following a thread,
they'd rather see the new information than having to scroll through posts
they already knew. That's the way I've always preferred to read long
threads.

I'm sorry to be the Diane with the chip on her shoulder, but this whole
thing is just a little personal to me, in just about every possible way. If
you'd like my credentials, I can tell you that I published a magazine of
television history for 17 years and I am a songwriter. If you want links to
my websites, I'll be happy to provide them.

In the meantime, Fred Ferrara deserves better than this. He suffered from a
rare disease that ate away at his organs, and he performed his last concert
just a few days before his death, when he was so weak he had to be seated on
the stage. He had lost Johnny Maestro just a year and a half ago, pretty
much ending the careers of the guys in The Brooklyn Bridge, who had remained
together for over 40 years with four original group members.

This should not be about me, or my way of posting, or my not giving you a
direct trail to a specific link for confirmation. It was a day after he died
that I posted the obit, and even in that post I expressed surprise that it
had not been posted yet. I did NOT want to be the one to do it.

I'm sorry that we don't agree on modus operandi. I'm sorry that you feel I'm
being a drama queen. I'm sorry that I'm in a place right now where it was
easy for me to take personal offense to my word being questioned. I'm sorry
that I prefer to top-post; I'm offended that you're so quick to label me a
"newbie" because of it. I was merely trying to get the word out that someone
had died, whose death is not going to be big enough news that searching his
name online would bring up a link to this news.

The Other Diane

Post by BobF
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 15:47:46 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Sorry Bob, but this particular case, under these particular circumstances,
doesn't fly with me.
Forget googling "Fred Ferrara death". With what I myself have told you, you
could go directly to the Facebook wall of the Brooklyn Bridge's drummer and
see confirmation.

If you read my post again you'll see that I didn't google "Fred
Ferrara death." I googled "Freddy Ferrara."

Post by The Other Diane
You could go to the official page for Johnny Maestro and The Brooklyn
Bridge, where there may be an announcement.

"May" be isn't confirmation. But please feel free to provide the
links.

Post by The Other Diane
You can even go to Dion DiMucci's Facebook page and see a post, I believe.

Nor are "I believe," Facebook pages or blogs considered confirmation.
As mentioned before, confirmation comes from a reliable source that
can be checked - like an obituary or an article in the mainstream
media.

Post by The Other Diane
There is enough confirmation of his death AND his funeral arrangements if
you go to the sources instead of relying on a google search.

Again - please provide the links instead of getting your knickers in a
twist.

Post by The Other Diane
If you want to
act as a moderator for this group, there's a phone number to call the
Brooklyn Bridge booking people themselves for confirmation.

Remember, you are the one who insists that Mr Ferrara's death was
confirmed and contradicted the OP without providing anything but
someone else's FB page. So please provide that confirmation.

Post by The Other Diane
I can see labeling something as "unconfirmed" if someone posts an obit about
someone really famous, but in a case like this, why would someone make up a
rumor about the death of someone whose name will not even be known except by
very specific fans?
And in case there IS someone reading alt.obits who would care to know of the
death of a member of the Brooklyn Bridge but doesn't keep up with any of
their online fan groups, then while they wait around for a newspaper article
before this obit is labeled "confirmed", they'd miss the funeral and
memorial service.
Sorry, but to me this is nitpicking at its worst. If an "insider" waits for
an "official news report" about the death of someone whose name is not
famous enough to even make it into news reports, it could be DAYS before the
rest of the caring world knows that someone has passed on.

Fine. I'm not at all bothered with your criticism. When you jumped on
Ray's original post with your "This is NOT unconfirmed! " you clearly
didn't know the difference. You still don't.

Post by The Other Diane
I have friends in the show business world who are, like Fred Ferrara, not
famous enough names to make the newspapers or end up in google searches if
they should die, or maybe not for a week or even a month, but I will know
about their deaths because I'm their friend.
Should I just never post any of those?

Don't be such a drama queen. Of course you should post them and label
them as UNCONFIRMED - just like the OP did. In fact, I have to wonder
why you didn't post your OWN announcement of Freddy Ferrara's death
instead of jumping on someone else's.

Post by The Other Diane
It seems to me that Jim Beaver may have posted an obit or two through the
years before official word was out, because it was someone he knew...But I
never saw anyone change his postings to "unconfirmed." I'm sorry I'm not
"famous" like Jim Beaver, and therefore my information can't be trustworthy.
Jeesh.

First of all, you've got that ass backwards. You're the one who
changed jumped on Ray's OP with your "This is NOT unconfirmed!" and
then failed to confirm it.
And it's not about who is or isn't famous. Jim Beaver has an
established record of providing reliable information. You don't.

Post by The Other Diane
The Other Diane

Please send in the Diane who doesn't have a chip on her shoulder and
doesn't top-post like a Usenet newbie.
--
"No problem at all. Just scroll down to the bottom of the page and
read backwards."
"Only thing is ... I forgot where we started."
"Maybe they don't know how."
"I wonder why so few of the others top-post?"
"That's nice."
"I'm a top-poster too."
"Yes."
"Are you a top-poster?"
"Hi."
"Hi."

[Matt John]

Hey Bob you come off as a real dick. I just wanted you to know that.
Are your fingers broken? I found it in my first google, here are you
happy now? You say that Diane is a drama queen? Has a chip on her
shoulder but you come off as a total dick, arrogant and condescending.
I would rather deal with a drama queen then a piece of shit like you
any day.

http://www.moloneyfh.com/html/obits/obituaries.asp?listing_id=175984

[silas]

Post by Matt John
Hey Bob you come off as a real dick. I just wanted you to know that.
Are your fingers broken? I found it in my first google, here are you
happy now? You say that Diane is a drama queen? Has a chip on her
shoulder but you come off as a total dick, arrogant and condescending.
I would rather deal with a drama queen then a piece of shit like you
any day.

Google "ensjohnnymaestro" or "***@aol.com" for many more
sayings of Matt!

[BobF]

Post by silas

Post by Matt John
Hey Bob you come off as a real dick. I just wanted you to know that.
Are your fingers broken? I found it in my first google, here are you
happy now? You say that Diane is a drama queen? Has a chip on her
shoulder but you come off as a total dick, arrogant and condescending.
I would rather deal with a drama queen then a piece of shit like you
any day.

sayings of Matt!

Golly ... what a loser.

--

"Only very foolish mouse, make nest in cats ear." - Charlie Chan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wax-up and drop-in of Surfing's Golden Years: <http://www.surfwriter.net>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[BobF]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Matt John

Post by Matt John
Hey Bob you come off as a real dick. I just wanted you to know that.
Are your fingers broken? I found it in my first google, here are you
happy now? You say that Diane is a drama queen? Has a chip on her
shoulder but you come off as a total dick, arrogant and condescending.
I would rather deal with a drama queen then a piece of shit like you
any day.
http://www.moloneyfh.com/html/obits/obituaries.asp?listing_id=175984

Hey John - Welcome to Usenet. Welcome to alt.obituaries - a newsgroup
you've never posted in before now.

I may very well come off as a real dick to someone like you. After
all, you've come into this without knowing what the fuck you're
talking about. For example, that obit hadn't even been published when
this thread started. So it couldn't possibly have been found with a
Google search - or any other kind of search. Look at the thread and
then look at the dates of each post. Even an idiot like you should be
able to figure it out.

Now fuck off back to whatever rock you crawl under when you've been
spanked.

--

"The only difference between an asshole and a troll is
that an asshole knows when it's full of shit." - b

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wax-up and drop-in of Surfing's Golden Years: <http://www.surfwriter.net>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[BobF]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:27:27 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Bob,

Post by BobF
In fact, I have to wonder
why you didn't post your OWN announcement of Freddy Ferrara's death
instead of jumping on someone else's.

I DID post my own announcement of Freddy's death. The post that Ray changed
to "Unconfirmed" WAS my original post. I posted it here and in the '60s
music group, where Ray saw it and posted it here as "unconfirmed",
mistakenly saying that he saw it in the '50s group.

On my server your post come in over two hours after Ray's. Ray's was
the ORIGINAL POST on alt.obituaries. Yours was a contradiction of that
post. What you posted in the other group is not relevant. We're not
mind readers and there's no reason we should accept the word of
someone whose trust hasn't been earned - particularly after all the
false reports the group has had over the years.

Post by The Other Diane
I did give proof, by directing you to the Facebook page of the group's
drummer, Lou Agiesta. That's not just "someone else's" Facebook page.

Are you Lou Agiesta? If not then Lou Agiesta's Facebook page IS
someone else's. And something written on someone else's Facebook page
is NOT "proof" by alt.obituaries standards. What don't you understand
about that?

Post by The Other Diane
If you would like Lou's email address, I can send it privately to you. If
you would like the phone number for the Brooklyn Bridge's office, I can send
that to you. If you check the Facebook wall of Grace Mastrangelo, the widow
of Johnny Maestro, I BELIEVE (yes, I have not checked her wall) you should
see comments there.
The reason I wrote "I believe {there is a post on Dion's wall}" is that I
had by now
read SO much about Freddy's death, I wasn't sure exactly what I'd read
where. I have not checked The Brooklyn Bridge's page to be sure there is an
announcement because I already KNOW Freddy died. But if you go there, you
can contact them yourself.

What don't you understand about providing your own confirmation links?
Expecting alt.obituaries to accept the claim of a stranger that a
death is confirmed just because she "heard it on the grapevine" isn't
realistic. And since you are still unwilling to provide that
confirmation I can't see why anyone would accept your word.

Post by The Other Diane
I was intending to give you enough so you can independently check on this
obit by finding the links without any "possible corruption" by me.

Oh spare me ...

Post by The Other Diane
And Bob, I top-post because I figure that if someone is following a thread,
they'd rather see the new information than having to scroll through posts
they already knew. That's the way I've always preferred to read long
threads.

Think about it. If, as you say, you've been lurking here for years,
you will have noticed that NO ONE except the occasional newbie
top-posts. Now ask yourself why.

Post by The Other Diane
I'm sorry to be the Diane with the chip on her shoulder, but this whole
thing is just a little personal to me, in just about every possible way. If
you'd like my credentials, I can tell you that I published a magazine of
television history for 17 years and I am a songwriter. If you want links to
my websites, I'll be happy to provide them.
In the meantime, Fred Ferrara deserves better than this. He suffered from a
rare disease that ate away at his organs, and he performed his last concert
just a few days before his death, when he was so weak he had to be seated on
the stage. He had lost Johnny Maestro just a year and a half ago, pretty
much ending the careers of the guys in The Brooklyn Bridge, who had remained
together for over 40 years with four original group members.

The best way to stop making this about you and making it about Freddy
is by providing the links and confirmation I've been asking for from
the beginning.

Post by The Other Diane
This should not be about me, or my way of posting, or my not giving you a
direct trail to a specific link for confirmation. It was a day after he died
that I posted the obit, and even in that post I expressed surprise that it
had not been posted yet. I did NOT want to be the one to do it.

Again - what you posted on another newsgroup is not relevant here.
What you post on alt.obituaries IS. The only post we saw was your
contradiction of Ray's original "Unconfirmed" post. Ray followed
protocol. You not only didn't, you didn't even know what it was ...
and that, combined with your top-posting pointed to a Usenet novice.

And it might have helped if you'd actually told us in the beginning
that you'd previously posted in another newsgroup and that Ray's post
was a copy of yours.

Post by The Other Diane
I'm sorry that we don't agree on modus operandi. I'm sorry that you feel I'm
being a drama queen. I'm sorry that I'm in a place right now where it was
easy for me to take personal offense to my word being questioned. I'm sorry
that I prefer to top-post; I'm offended that you're so quick to label me a
"newbie" because of it. I was merely trying to get the word out that someone
had died, whose death is not going to be big enough news that searching his
name online would bring up a link to this news.

In other words, you are still unwilling or unable to provide
confirmation, but still expect everyone to accept your word. How
childish.

BTW - you don't have to be "BIG" for your death to be searchable on
Google. In fact, if it's mentioned anywhere on the Net, a Google
search will find it.

Post by The Other Diane
The Other Diane

Post by BobF
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 15:47:46 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Sorry Bob, but this particular case, under these particular circumstances,
doesn't fly with me.
Forget googling "Fred Ferrara death". With what I myself have told you, you
could go directly to the Facebook wall of the Brooklyn Bridge's drummer and
see confirmation.

If you read my post again you'll see that I didn't google "Fred
Ferrara death." I googled "Freddy Ferrara."

Post by The Other Diane
You could go to the official page for Johnny Maestro and The Brooklyn
Bridge, where there may be an announcement.

"May" be isn't confirmation. But please feel free to provide the
links.

Post by The Other Diane
You can even go to Dion DiMucci's Facebook page and see a post, I believe.

Nor are "I believe," Facebook pages or blogs considered confirmation.
As mentioned before, confirmation comes from a reliable source that
can be checked - like an obituary or an article in the mainstream
media.

Post by The Other Diane
There is enough confirmation of his death AND his funeral arrangements if
you go to the sources instead of relying on a google search.

Again - please provide the links instead of getting your knickers in a
twist.

Post by The Other Diane
If you want to
act as a moderator for this group, there's a phone number to call the
Brooklyn Bridge booking people themselves for confirmation.

Remember, you are the one who insists that Mr Ferrara's death was
confirmed and contradicted the OP without providing anything but
someone else's FB page. So please provide that confirmation.

Post by The Other Diane
I can see labeling something as "unconfirmed" if someone posts an obit about
someone really famous, but in a case like this, why would someone make up a
rumor about the death of someone whose name will not even be known except by
very specific fans?
And in case there IS someone reading alt.obits who would care to know of the
death of a member of the Brooklyn Bridge but doesn't keep up with any of
their online fan groups, then while they wait around for a newspaper article
before this obit is labeled "confirmed", they'd miss the funeral and
memorial service.
Sorry, but to me this is nitpicking at its worst. If an "insider" waits for
an "official news report" about the death of someone whose name is not
famous enough to even make it into news reports, it could be DAYS before the
rest of the caring world knows that someone has passed on.

Fine. I'm not at all bothered with your criticism. When you jumped on
Ray's original post with your "This is NOT unconfirmed! " you clearly
didn't know the difference. You still don't.

Post by The Other Diane
I have friends in the show business world who are, like Fred Ferrara, not
famous enough names to make the newspapers or end up in google searches if
they should die, or maybe not for a week or even a month, but I will know
about their deaths because I'm their friend.
Should I just never post any of those?

Don't be such a drama queen. Of course you should post them and label
them as UNCONFIRMED - just like the OP did. In fact, I have to wonder
why you didn't post your OWN announcement of Freddy Ferrara's death
instead of jumping on someone else's.

Post by The Other Diane
It seems to me that Jim Beaver may have posted an obit or two through the
years before official word was out, because it was someone he knew...But I
never saw anyone change his postings to "unconfirmed." I'm sorry I'm not
"famous" like Jim Beaver, and therefore my information can't be trustworthy.
Jeesh.

First of all, you've got that ass backwards. You're the one who
changed jumped on Ray's OP with your "This is NOT unconfirmed!" and
then failed to confirm it.
And it's not about who is or isn't famous. Jim Beaver has an
established record of providing reliable information. You don't.

Post by The Other Diane
The Other Diane

Please send in the Diane who doesn't have a chip on her shoulder and
doesn't top-post like a Usenet newbie.
--
"No problem at all. Just scroll down to the bottom of the page and
read backwards."
"Only thing is ... I forgot where we started."
"Maybe they don't know how."
"I wonder why so few of the others top-post?"
"That's nice."
"I'm a top-poster too."
"Yes."
"Are you a top-poster?"
"Hi."
"Hi."

[The Other Diane]

I am snipping and including only relevant info from the thread.

Bob,

I've been reading this group first thing every morning of my life for about
15 years. I rarely post, but when I do, I always top-post. I've been chided
for it a few times, ALWAYS only as an extra dig during a difference of
opinion about something else.

People like you need to go to extremes to escalate a fight with someone who
has only good intentions, who is literate and articulate, but who "breaks"
the unspoken rule about top-posting.

I am NOT the only person who prefers to read the NEW info at the top of a
long thread.

My posting was first and I saw it show up here on my server. I posted it
only a minute later in the music newsgroup. That is HOW Ray discovered it,
even if he (and you) missed it in THIS newsgroup.

Maybe this whole thing is a misunderstanding based on Ray's post showing up
as the earlier one on your server. But I still don't see why you view my
posting as a "contradiction" of Ray's.

I do apologize that in my knee-jerk reaction at his reposting it as
"Unconfirmed", I neglected to point out that I was the one who posted the
notice in the first place, which he was now reposting and changing it to
"unconfirmed."

All I saw was someone undermining my post, and I took offense at that.

I now realize he may not have been posting with the intention of merely
changing my notice to "unconfirmed", but that his intention was to post the
death notice after seeing it in the other group, thinking it hadn't been
posted to this group yet, and adding the caveat because he had no
corroborative info.

But I think you're pretty rigid for regarding the Facebook page of the
Brooklyn Bridge's drummer as NOT being proof by this exalted newsgroup's
standards.

Do you know who Dion DiMucci is? Do you think you could find your way to his
Facebook page? Do you think he would post about Fred Ferrara dying if it
weren't true?

Do you find it so hard to type in something other than the name "Fred
Ferrara" when I gave you enough information to confirm my report without
typing his name?

You ask what I don't understand about the top-posting rule and the non-proof
of someone else's Facebook page? I understand it fine, Bob, and unlike you,
I have not resorted to insults and sarcasm in trying to make my points in
this argument.

You had to pick a fight with a well-meaning "stranger" who had given you
PLENTY to work with, to find a link independent of ANYTHING I'd have typed,
so that you could feel that this death was "confirmed" without my
interference. And to this SINCERE comment that I made before, your reply
here was, "Spare me."

And by the time your post to which I am now replying appeared, my posting
with its new subject line called "Confirmation..." containing SEVERAL links,
IS showing up on MY server. Yet, you're still saying that I have not
provided confirmation.

And based on your logic, just about EVERY link I provided could still be
regarded as suspect. I certainly would never use Wikipedia as a definitive
say on anything, and most of the other links are still just things that
other "strangers" posted.

You could even make a point that the info from the funeral home is a hoax.
So where does it end for you, Bob? Even a newspaper sometimes prints news
that is false.

I am a nice, decent person, Bob. I don't deserve to have been put through
inane and insane crap that doesn't matter in life.

This newsgroup has a purpose. I followed that purpose. You are probably one
of less than ten people even following this thread, and I'd assume you have
the intelligence to understand my new info at the top, rather than endlessly
scrolling past things you've read five times already to find it.

The minutiae of usenet etiquette doesn't matter when a posting is EASY to
understand. You made a big deal out of nothing. I didn't post that some
famous person had died, causing a gigantic uproar while someone like you
tried to find confirmation.

I posted about someone whose death you say you STILL can't find when you
type it into Google. So why not have made it easy on us both and been a NICE
person in the process, by believing that this "stranger" might have been on
the level, thinking outside the box and finding confirmation in other ways
than just searching for his name?

The Other Diane

Post by BobF
Are you Lou Agiesta? If not then Lou Agiesta's Facebook page IS
someone else's. And something written on someone else's Facebook page
is NOT "proof" by alt.obituaries standards. What don't you understand
about that?
What don't you understand about providing your own confirmation links?
Expecting alt.obituaries to accept the claim of a stranger that a
death is confirmed just because she "heard it on the grapevine" isn't
realistic. And since you are still unwilling to provide that
confirmation I can't see why anyone would accept your word.
The only post we saw was your
contradiction of Ray's original "Unconfirmed" post. Ray followed
protocol. You not only didn't, you didn't even know what it was ...
and that, combined with your top-posting pointed to a Usenet novice.
And it might have helped if you'd actually told us in the beginning
that you'd previously posted in another newsgroup and that Ray's post
was a copy of yours.
In other words, you are still unwilling or unable to provide
confirmation, but still expect everyone to accept your word. How
childish.
BTW - you don't have to be "BIG" for your death to be searchable on
Google. In fact, if it's mentioned anywhere on the Net, a Google
search will find it.

[Matt John]

Hmmmm I have no idea why you are feeding him. Bob is what is called an
internet troll. He is doing nothing but grief you during your time of
grief. Do not give him the satisfaction. He sits behind his keyboard
all day and gives shit to people, seemingly women. Clearly a sad man.
He is rude, cannot use google very well, arrogant and a know it all.
Just ignore him. Post your information and leave it be. His shitty
attitude towards you as a poster and a woman is a reflection on him,
not you.

[Bermuda999]

Post by Matt John
Hmmmm I have no idea why you are feeding him. Bob is what is called an
internet troll. He is doing nothing but grief you during your time of
grief. Do not give him the satisfaction.  He sits behind his keyboard
all day and gives shit to people, seemingly women. Clearly a sad man.
He is rude, cannot use google very well, arrogant and a know it all.
Just ignore him. Post your information and leave it be. His shitty
attitude towards you as a poster and a woman is a reflection on him,
not you.

Not only is BobF not a troll, he is often a moderating influence on
the newsgroup. In this thread he appears to have clearly explained
established protocol regarding death confirmation, which was and
apparently still is ignored by The Other Poster. She was not singled
out. He and others have explained the established confirmation
process, what constitutes reliable confirmation, etc. many times. I've
noticed no different treatment of men versus women (to the extent that
can be determmined by a screenname). Perhaps you could share examples
you have foiund of BobF giving shit to "people, seemingly
women" (please do not count posts addressed to unemployed 8-year old
girls)

[Kris Baker]

Post by Matt John
Hmmmm I have no idea why you are feeding him. Bob is what is called an
internet troll. He is doing nothing but grief you during your time of
grief. Do not give him the satisfaction. He sits behind his keyboard
all day and gives shit to people, seemingly women. Clearly a sad man.
He is rude, cannot use google very well, arrogant and a know it all.
Just ignore him. Post your information and leave it be. His shitty
attitude towards you as a poster and a woman is a reflection on him,
not you.

Not only is BobF not a troll, he is often a moderating influence on
the newsgroup. In this thread he appears to have clearly explained
established protocol regarding death confirmation, which was and
apparently still is ignored by The Other Poster. She was not singled
out. He and others have explained the established confirmation
process, what constitutes reliable confirmation, etc. many times. I've
noticed no different treatment of men versus women (to the extent that
can be determmined by a screenname). Perhaps you could share examples
you have foiund of BobF giving shit to "people, seemingly
women" (please do not count posts addressed to unemployed 8-year old
girls)

---------------------------------

I totally agree.

Kris

[BobF]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 19:43:05 -0600, "Kris Baker"

Post by Bermuda999

Post by Matt John
Hmmmm I have no idea why you are feeding him. Bob is what is called an
internet troll. He is doing nothing but grief you during your time of
grief. Do not give him the satisfaction. He sits behind his keyboard
all day and gives shit to people, seemingly women. Clearly a sad man.
He is rude, cannot use google very well, arrogant and a know it all.
Just ignore him. Post your information and leave it be. His shitty
attitude towards you as a poster and a woman is a reflection on him,
not you.

Not only is BobF not a troll, he is often a moderating influence on
the newsgroup. In this thread he appears to have clearly explained
established protocol regarding death confirmation, which was and
apparently still is ignored by The Other Poster. She was not singled
out. He and others have explained the established confirmation
process, what constitutes reliable confirmation, etc. many times. I've
noticed no different treatment of men versus women (to the extent that
can be determmined by a screenname). Perhaps you could share examples
you have foiund of BobF giving shit to "people, seemingly
women" (please do not count posts addressed to unemployed 8-year old
girls)
---------------------------------
I totally agree.
Kris

Thanks mates for the support and clarification.

I've come to the conclusion that these newbies are not worth the
effort. So I'm plonking them both.

May Freddy Ferrara rest in peace.

--

"Goodnight sweet prince. And flights of angels
sing thee to thy rest."

Requiescat in pace

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wax-up and drop-in of Surfing's Golden Years: <http://www.surfwriter.net>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[BobF]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:49:53 -0700 (PDT), Matt John

Post by Matt John
Hmmmm I have no idea why you are feeding him. Bob is what is called an
internet troll. He is doing nothing but grief you during your time of
grief. Do not give him the satisfaction. He sits behind his keyboard
all day and gives shit to people, seemingly women. Clearly a sad man.
He is rude, cannot use google very well, arrogant and a know it all.
Just ignore him. Post your information and leave it be. His shitty
attitude towards you as a poster and a woman is a reflection on him,
not you.

Speaking of hopeless trolls and using Google , here's what a Google
search turned up on the troll calling itself Matt John (or Matthew
Oakes? OR - and I quote: "EdWood, aka Matthew John, aka Big Mary’s
fucking Grandson (who goes by the names BigMary MamaCass, and
UncleNambla in the World of Warcraft), aka the man who Met the One Man
Gang, aka the president of the Johnny Maestro and the Brooklyn Bridge
fan club, aka The Godfather of the entire Internet aka Terri Schiavo’s
secret lover on those lonely nights when no one else in the hospital
was looking:") :

Websites: http://tinyurl.com/3jl9tlp

Photos: http://tinyurl.com/3pe22vz

With allies like Sarah Ehrett and Matt John, there's no telling what
The Other Dianne will be able to accomplish next.

--

"The only difference between an asshole and a troll is
that an asshole knows when it's full of shit." - b

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wax-up and drop-in of Surfing's Golden Years: <http://www.surfwriter.net>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[The Other Diane]

Post by BobF
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:49:53 -0700 (PDT), Matt John

Post by Matt John
Hmmmm I have no idea why you are feeding him. Bob is what is called an
internet troll. He is doing nothing but grief you during your time of
grief. Do not give him the satisfaction. He sits behind his keyboard
all day and gives shit to people, seemingly women. Clearly a sad man.
He is rude, cannot use google very well, arrogant and a know it all.
Just ignore him. Post your information and leave it be. His shitty
attitude towards you as a poster and a woman is a reflection on him,
not you.

Speaking of hopeless trolls and using Google , here's what a Google
search turned up on the troll calling itself Matt John (or Matthew
Oakes? OR - and I quote: "EdWood, aka Matthew John, aka Big Mary's
fucking Grandson (who goes by the names BigMary MamaCass, and
UncleNambla in the World of Warcraft), aka the man who Met the One Man
Gang, aka the president of the Johnny Maestro and the Brooklyn Bridge
fan club, aka The Godfather of the entire Internet aka Terri Schiavo's
secret lover on those lonely nights when no one else in the hospital
Websites: http://tinyurl.com/3jl9tlp
Photos: http://tinyurl.com/3pe22vz
With allies like Sarah Ehrett and Matt John, there's no telling what
The Other Dianne will be able to accomplish next.

You might want to get the spelling of my name right, Bob. It's Diane with
one "n". I think we know each other well enough by now that you might have
gotten that right.

And I think I've probably accomplished a whole lot more with my life than
you have. I already know that you are unable to follow timelines, do simple
searches, read with any understanding, or engage in an adult debate without
resorting to schoolyard bullying.

And I finally understand that people like you are completely unredeemable.
So this has now turned into something that is almost amusing for me...to see
how far you keep digging, only to end up in the hole yourself. Thank you.

Isn't it nice that you can be YOU as long as you can stay anonymous on the
Internet, while I offered to give my credentials more than once and yet you
kept ignoring that, just so that you could continue to make an ass of
yourself by trying to find ways to end up "right".

[BobF]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 08:50:15 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Isn't it nice that you can be YOU as long as you can stay anonymous on the
Internet, while I offered to give my credentials more than once and yet you
kept ignoring that, just so that you could continue to make an ass of
yourself by trying to find ways to end up "right".

Earlier you claimed "I've been here for over a decade but I rarely
post." You should have added that you rarely read and clearly haven't
a clue what's going on here or what the accepted protocols for posting
are.

OTOH every regular here knows who I am, what my website is and how to
email me. If you'd bothered to look you'd see that my email address
and URL are in the header of EVERY post I make on this ng:
www.surfwriter.net. Then you probably don't know what a header is.

Like many regular contributors here I munge my email address to
discourage SPAM. So all you or anyone else has to do is take the "not"
off the end of my address. For everyone but you that's obvious.

And although I'm not always right and admit my mistakes (my gaff about
the Alamo comes to mind), I sure as hell am right about this one,

If you'd try reading the comments in this thread from ao regulars
(instead of your trolling friend from another ng and resident troll,
"Sarah") you'd see that they all agree.

[Sarah Ehrett]

Post by BobF
Earlier you claimed "I've been here for over a decade but I rarely
post." You should have added that you rarely read and clearly haven't
a clue what's going on here or what the accepted protocols for posting
are.

Does this mean Bob that you'll be compiling a volume of " The sayings of
Dianne [sic] " ?

LOL.

[The Other Diane]

Post by BobF
On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 08:50:15 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Isn't it nice that you can be YOU as long as you can stay anonymous on the
Internet, while I offered to give my credentials more than once and yet you
kept ignoring that, just so that you could continue to make an ass of
yourself by trying to find ways to end up "right".

Earlier you claimed "I've been here for over a decade but I rarely
post." You should have added that you rarely read and clearly haven't
a clue what's going on here or what the accepted protocols for posting
are.
OTOH every regular here knows who I am, what my website is and how to
email me. If you'd bothered to look you'd see that my email address
www.surfwriter.net. Then you probably don't know what a header is.
Like many regular contributors here I munge my email address to
discourage SPAM. So all you or anyone else has to do is take the "not"
off the end of my address. For everyone but you that's obvious.
And although I'm not always right and admit my mistakes (my gaff about
the Alamo comes to mind), I sure as hell am right about this one,
If you'd try reading the comments in this thread from ao regulars
(instead of your trolling friend from another ng and resident troll,
"Sarah") you'd see that they all agree.

Bob, I'm not the slightest bit interested in your real name or anything else
about you. Knowing who you are in real life won't change what kind of person
you have shown yourself to be.

It's funny, though, that you think I should've looked you up to see "who
you are", when you neglected to observe THE HEADER in the first place, that
the response to Ray's reposting the death notice as "unconfirmed" came from
the same person he was quoting (me).

You have not been right about anything in this thread, Bob, except your
anal rigid adherence to protocol, which you take to ridiculous extremes.

All your smoke and fog in continuing to personally attack me doesn't
eliminate that you ignored facts, and that you were too lazy, rigid, and
unkind to follow my
suggestion to look up the Brooklyn Bridge website independently and CALL
their office to confirm the death, if the Facebook page of their
40-year-plus drummer wasn't enough. Are you such a simpleton that you NEED a
link to click on, rather than following an outside-the-box way of confirming
a death?

And Bob, the comments in this thread from your legions of ao regulars don't
make them look like intelligent, reasonable people who are capable of an
adult discussion.

Let's see.. One response to my post was "yawn", one was "You're
boring...Plonk." At least he knew enough not to misspell it"Your boring."

Another one goes out on a limb to claim that Sarah and I are the SAME
person, when any regular here would KNOW that you can check IP addresses to
disprove that.

And Ray's coy claim that he "wouldn't even know how to change a posting to
unconfirmed", when we've seen for years that a simple comment under a death
notice saying "Correcting the header" is de rigeur here. (You might need to
look up that phrase. Do you need a link to do that?)

And I believe there were a couple more at no higher level of intelligent
thought.

If those are the caliber of people whose postings you respect, that tells
me even more that you aren't a person worthy of the thought I used for
trying to get through your thick brain.

I had no idea until Sarah's posting that YOU were the reason MWB left this
group. The reason: You're right that I don't sit here all day and I don't
read every post. I look at the subject lines, and rarely have to read
further than that.

I don't post if I don't have something interesting to add about the person
who died. I have a life. I don't even know what you're referring to about
the "Alamo". But gee, it's nice to know that you were once wrong about
something.

I get as momentarily upset as anyone when a clueless newbie posts what is
meant to be a question as to someone's status and doesn't know to put
question marks around their name. And yeah, the occasional idiot posts a
death as a hoax.

But you clearly don't understand how to differentiate anything else outside
your black and white box or allow for legitimate variations in confirming a
death. But I realize now that's because the only thing you know how to do is
click on a link. I'll take a wild guess here and assume you're not a private
investigator in real life.

I don't quite see why anyone would want to be a regular here, except as I
have been for 15 years, to check daily for deaths that I might care about.

But I do know that when someone dear to me dies, who might be known at all
in the world of show business, and a day later I don't see an obit, I feel
compelled to post the notice. I am sooooo very sorry that in my sadness, I
felt that Freddy's death was more important than your insane protocol.

The Other Diane

[BobF]

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 11:05:40 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
It's funny, though, that you think I should've looked you up to see "who
you are", when you neglected to observe THE HEADER in the first place, that
the response to Ray's reposting the death notice as "unconfirmed" came from
the same person he was quoting (me).

Once again you reveal yourself as a Usenet dilettante - especially
when it comes to this newsgroup.

Post by The Other Diane
You have not been right about anything in this thread, Bob, except your
anal rigid adherence to protocol, which you take to ridiculous extremes.

Au contraire. Only a complete fool (and there are a few around) could
lurk in this group for the fifteen years you claim and still not know
the difference between confirmed and unconfirmed.

You posted an unconfirmed death. Ray read it in another newsgroup and
reposted it here as unconfirmed. He was correct. You weren't. I tried
to point that out to you and you took offence and made it personal.
You still are.

As far as your self-serving fantasy about the scarcity of female
contributors on alt.obituaries is concerned, you may have lurked here
for fifteen years, but you sure as hell haven't learned anything about
the group or its contributors.

[The Other Diane]

Post by BobF
On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 11:05:40 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
It's funny, though, that you think I should've looked you up to see "who
you are", when you neglected to observe THE HEADER in the first place, that
the response to Ray's reposting the death notice as "unconfirmed" came from
the same person he was quoting (me).

Once again you reveal yourself as a Usenet dilettante - especially
when it comes to this newsgroup.

Post by The Other Diane
You have not been right about anything in this thread, Bob, except your
anal rigid adherence to protocol, which you take to ridiculous extremes.

Au contraire. Only a complete fool (and there are a few around) could
lurk in this group for the fifteen years you claim and still not know
the difference between confirmed and unconfirmed.
You posted an unconfirmed death. Ray read it in another newsgroup and
reposted it here as unconfirmed. He was correct. You weren't. I tried
to point that out to you and you took offence and made it personal.
You still are.
As far as your self-serving fantasy about the scarcity of female
contributors on alt.obituaries is concerned, you may have lurked here
for fifteen years, but you sure as hell haven't learned anything about
the group or its contributors.

Let me be clearer, Bob. You're right: I don't know the truth about the
identities of any of the group of contributors here. The names that I've
seen over and over are all men. And surely with your vast experience, you
know that many if not most people use fake names, even pretending to be the
opposite gender.

This is NOT about contributors, for me. It's about seeing who has died. I
don't want to be a member of your wonderful, elite club. PLEASE don't send
me an invitation or welcome me to start posting regularly now that I am
perhaps "known here."

Yup, I didn't give a link initially, and yup, I didn't give a link when I
took it personally that my word was undermined.

WHY? I figured that anyone who knew or cared about Freddy already knew he
had died, so most people wouldn't read past the header anyway.

I also figured that regulars here would know it was unlikely to be a hoax or
rumor, given the relative non-fame of the person. And I inferred that anyone
who cared could figure out several ways to confirm the death.

I felt Freddy worthy of being mentioned in ao, and I KNEW his death could be
confirmed by anyone who cared, by going straight to the remaining Brooklyn
Bridge members, most of them very easy to find on the Internet.

If you refuse to take the time to go to the Brooklyn Bridge's drummer's
Facebook page or Dion DiMucci's Facebook page and then you refuse to take
their postings as confirmation, then you need to go into deep psychotherapy
because you are way too suspicious to live comfortably in this world.

If you were unwilling to look up the Brooklyn Bridge's official website and
make a phone call to their office, then your intent was solely to rip me
apart instead of putting an obituary notice to rest with confirmation of
your own.

You're right: I don't care about your ridigity regarding the "rules"
regarding confirmed vs. unconfirmed-- for one simple reason: You are the one
who chose to prioritize "protocol" over utilizing any number of good
qualities I could list here, all of which you would be personally
unfamiliar.

The Other Diane

[BobF]

On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 11:08:10 -0800, "The Other Diane"
<***@happyretrogirl.com> shouted from the highest rooftop:

<snip self-serving twaddle)

Post by The Other Diane
Yup, I didn't give a link initially, and yup, I didn't give a link when I
took it personally that my word was undermined.
WHY? I figured that anyone who knew or cared about Freddy already knew he
had died, so most people wouldn't read past the header anyway.

Reminds me of a place I visited once. When I had to ask for directions
to a particular address I also asked why there were no street signs
and was told it was because most people just drove through and
everyone else already knew the street names.

Your word wasn't undermined. Your word was questioned and *that's*
what you took personally ... and still are.

<snip rest of puerile rant>

[The Other Diane]

Post by BobF
On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 11:08:10 -0800, "The Other Diane"
<snip self-serving twaddle)

Post by The Other Diane
Yup, I didn't give a link initially, and yup, I didn't give a link when I
took it personally that my word was undermined.
WHY? I figured that anyone who knew or cared about Freddy already knew he
had died, so most people wouldn't read past the header anyway.

Reminds me of a place I visited once. When I had to ask for directions
to a particular address I also asked why there were no street signs
and was told it was because most people just drove through and
everyone else already knew the street names.
Your word wasn't undermined. Your word was questioned and *that's*
what you took personally ... and still are.

Wow, Bob. You mean you are actually the kind of man who would ASK FOR
DIRECTIONS?!?! I'm so much more impressed with you now.

By the way, you're obviously too dense to understand that I am no longer
taking ANY of this personally.

The Other Diane

[BobF]

On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:30:45 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
By the way, you're obviously too dense to understand that I am no longer
taking ANY of this personally.

Obviously.


--

"Elaborate excuse, seldom true." - Charlie Chan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wax-up and drop-in of Surfing's Golden Years: <http://www.surfwriter.net>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[The Other Diane]

Post by BobF
On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:30:45 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
By the way, you're obviously too dense to understand that I am no longer
taking ANY of this personally.

Obviously.

LOL. I bet you're used to getting the last word in your eloquent arguments.
The Other Diane

[d***@optonline.net]

Why does it take sooooo long for people to found out a death. Just ask one of that person's family members! (Me included).

[The Other Diane]

You should've seen the long thread of people assaulting me and accusing me
of being someone else when I posted about Freddy's death the same day it
happened, because I didn't say it was "unconfirmed".
The Other Diane

Post by d***@optonline.net
Why does it take sooooo long for people to found out a death. Just ask
one of that person's family members! (Me included).

[BobF]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 15:56:42 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
I am snipping and including only relevant info from the thread.
Bob,
I've been reading this group first thing every morning of my life for about
15 years. I rarely post, but when I do, I always top-post. I've been chided
for it a few times, ALWAYS only as an extra dig during a difference of
opinion about something else.
People like you need to go to extremes to escalate a fight with someone who
has only good intentions, who is literate and articulate, but who "breaks"
the unspoken rule about top-posting.
I am NOT the only person who prefers to read the NEW info at the top of a
long thread.

If you have been lurking in this ng for as long as you claim, then you
would have noticed that you are the ONLY top-poster. Does that make
you different? Yes.

Does that also make you look like a newbie without any concept of
Usenet etiquette?

Definitely.

[BobF]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:27:27 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Bob,

Post by BobF
In fact, I have to wonder
why you didn't post your OWN announcement of Freddy Ferrara's death
instead of jumping on someone else's.

I DID post my own announcement of Freddy's death. The post that Ray changed
to "Unconfirmed" WAS my original post. I posted it here and in the '60s
music group, where Ray saw it and posted it here as "unconfirmed",
mistakenly saying that he saw it in the '50s group.

What don't you understand about this being alt.obituaries. You DID NOT
post your own announcement on Freddy's death on THIS newsgroup. What
you first posted on alt.obits was a contradiction of Ray's OP stating
that the death was Unconfirmed - which indeed it was at the time.

Post by The Other Diane
I did give proof, by directing you to the Facebook page of the group's
drummer, Lou Agiesta. That's not just "someone else's" Facebook page.

I'll say this one last time. A post or announcement on a Facebook page
is NOT considered confirmation on alt. obituaries. If you read this
group regularly - as you've stated - then you should know this.

Post by The Other Diane
If you would like Lou's email address, I can send it privately to you. If
you would like the phone number for the Brooklyn Bridge's office, I can send
that to you. If you check the Facebook wall of Grace Mastrangelo, the widow
of Johnny Maestro, I BELIEVE (yes, I have not checked her wall) you should
see comments there.

I'll say this one last time. If you are going to post an obituary or
the notice of a death it's up to YOU to provide the confirmation. The
same applies to someone coming out of the blue claiming that a post
marked "Unconfirmed" is wrong. If it's wrong then prove it rather than
expecting everyone to take your "word" for it. It just doesn't work
that way. And if you don't like it ...

Post by The Other Diane
The reason I wrote "I believe {there is a post on Dion's wall}" is that I
had by now
read SO much about Freddy's death, I wasn't sure exactly what I'd read
where. I have not checked The Brooklyn Bridge's page to be sure there is an
announcement because I already KNOW Freddy died. But if you go there, you
can contact them yourself.
I was intending to give you enough so you can independently check on this
obit by finding the links without any "possible corruption" by me.
And Bob, I top-post because I figure that if someone is following a thread,
they'd rather see the new information than having to scroll through posts
they already knew. That's the way I've always preferred to read long
threads.
I'm sorry to be the Diane with the chip on her shoulder, but this whole
thing is just a little personal to me, in just about every possible way. If
you'd like my credentials, I can tell you that I published a magazine of
television history for 17 years and I am a songwriter. If you want links to
my websites, I'll be happy to provide them.
In the meantime, Fred Ferrara deserves better than this. He suffered from a
rare disease that ate away at his organs, and he performed his last concert
just a few days before his death, when he was so weak he had to be seated on
the stage. He had lost Johnny Maestro just a year and a half ago, pretty
much ending the careers of the guys in The Brooklyn Bridge, who had remained
together for over 40 years with four original group members.
This should not be about me, or my way of posting, or my not giving you a
direct trail to a specific link for confirmation. It was a day after he died
that I posted the obit, and even in that post I expressed surprise that it
had not been posted yet. I did NOT want to be the one to do it.
I'm sorry that we don't agree on modus operandi. I'm sorry that you feel I'm
being a drama queen. I'm sorry that I'm in a place right now where it was
easy for me to take personal offense to my word being questioned. I'm sorry
that I prefer to top-post; I'm offended that you're so quick to label me a
"newbie" because of it. I was merely trying to get the word out that someone
had died, whose death is not going to be big enough news that searching his
name online would bring up a link to this news.
The Other Diane

Post by BobF
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 15:47:46 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Sorry Bob, but this particular case, under these particular circumstances,
doesn't fly with me.
Forget googling "Fred Ferrara death". With what I myself have told you, you
could go directly to the Facebook wall of the Brooklyn Bridge's drummer and
see confirmation.

If you read my post again you'll see that I didn't google "Fred
Ferrara death." I googled "Freddy Ferrara."

Post by The Other Diane
You could go to the official page for Johnny Maestro and The Brooklyn
Bridge, where there may be an announcement.

"May" be isn't confirmation. But please feel free to provide the
links.

Post by The Other Diane
You can even go to Dion DiMucci's Facebook page and see a post, I believe.

Nor are "I believe," Facebook pages or blogs considered confirmation.
As mentioned before, confirmation comes from a reliable source that
can be checked - like an obituary or an article in the mainstream
media.

Post by The Other Diane
There is enough confirmation of his death AND his funeral arrangements if
you go to the sources instead of relying on a google search.

Again - please provide the links instead of getting your knickers in a
twist.

Post by The Other Diane
If you want to
act as a moderator for this group, there's a phone number to call the
Brooklyn Bridge booking people themselves for confirmation.

Remember, you are the one who insists that Mr Ferrara's death was
confirmed and contradicted the OP without providing anything but
someone else's FB page. So please provide that confirmation.

Post by The Other Diane
I can see labeling something as "unconfirmed" if someone posts an obit about
someone really famous, but in a case like this, why would someone make up a
rumor about the death of someone whose name will not even be known except by
very specific fans?
And in case there IS someone reading alt.obits who would care to know of the
death of a member of the Brooklyn Bridge but doesn't keep up with any of
their online fan groups, then while they wait around for a newspaper article
before this obit is labeled "confirmed", they'd miss the funeral and
memorial service.
Sorry, but to me this is nitpicking at its worst. If an "insider" waits for
an "official news report" about the death of someone whose name is not
famous enough to even make it into news reports, it could be DAYS before the
rest of the caring world knows that someone has passed on.

Fine. I'm not at all bothered with your criticism. When you jumped on
Ray's original post with your "This is NOT unconfirmed! " you clearly
didn't know the difference. You still don't.

Post by The Other Diane
I have friends in the show business world who are, like Fred Ferrara, not
famous enough names to make the newspapers or end up in google searches if
they should die, or maybe not for a week or even a month, but I will know
about their deaths because I'm their friend.
Should I just never post any of those?

Don't be such a drama queen. Of course you should post them and label
them as UNCONFIRMED - just like the OP did. In fact, I have to wonder
why you didn't post your OWN announcement of Freddy Ferrara's death
instead of jumping on someone else's.

Post by The Other Diane
It seems to me that Jim Beaver may have posted an obit or two through the
years before official word was out, because it was someone he knew...But I
never saw anyone change his postings to "unconfirmed." I'm sorry I'm not
"famous" like Jim Beaver, and therefore my information can't be trustworthy.
Jeesh.

First of all, you've got that ass backwards. You're the one who
changed jumped on Ray's OP with your "This is NOT unconfirmed!" and
then failed to confirm it.
And it's not about who is or isn't famous. Jim Beaver has an
established record of providing reliable information. You don't.

Post by The Other Diane
The Other Diane

Please send in the Diane who doesn't have a chip on her shoulder and
doesn't top-post like a Usenet newbie.
--
"No problem at all. Just scroll down to the bottom of the page and
read backwards."
"Only thing is ... I forgot where we started."
"Maybe they don't know how."
"I wonder why so few of the others top-post?"
"That's nice."
"I'm a top-poster too."
"Yes."
"Are you a top-poster?"
"Hi."
"Hi."

[The Other Diane]

Post by BobF
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:27:27 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
I DID post my own announcement of Freddy's death. The post that Ray changed
to "Unconfirmed" WAS my original post. I posted it here and in the '60s
music group, where Ray saw it and posted it here as "unconfirmed",
mistakenly saying that he saw it in the '50s group.

What don't you understand about this being alt.obituaries. You DID NOT
post your own announcement on Freddy's death on THIS newsgroup. What
you first posted on alt.obits was a contradiction of Ray's OP stating
that the death was Unconfirmed - which indeed it was at the time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bob,
Even today, you are still insisting that my posting Fred Ferrara's death
was not in THIS newsgroup before Ray's.

I can't help that mine didn't show up on YOUR server first. I have the
proof. I kept my sent mails, AND I see the time of my posting in my view of
this newsgroup even right now when I change my view to "show all messages."

I posted to alt.obituaries on 10-22 at 9:44am.

I then posted to ***@yahoogroups.com ANNOUNCING that I had
just posted it to alt.obituaries, on 10-22 at 10:08am. You can CHECK that
time by going to that group and seeing my message. Would I have LIED to that
group about where I posted?

I then, as an afterthought, posted it to the '60s music newsgroup at
11:08am, where Ray saw it.

Ray reposted it here 10-22 at 2:52pm, as unconfirmed and saying that he saw
it in a music newsgroup.

You are IGNORING facts, and now out-and-out calling me a liar, as you
continue to look for ways to attack and discredit me for absolutely no good
reason.

This is no longer about our disagreement about what consitutes confirmation.
I will say again that I APOLOGIZED for misinterpreting Ray's posting as
merely meant to undermine my own.

The very reason I HAD that knee-jerk reaction was that I indeed HAD posted
it HERE and was upset that Ray reposted it as "unconfirmed."

I did NOT realize that at that time, my posting did not show up on either
yours or Ray's server.

Are you at all capable of understanding ANYTHING, even when it is proven to
you? I guess not, if it means you have to backtrack and say that you went a
little too far in your nastiness.

The Other Diane

[Sarah Ehrett]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:38:51 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by BobF

Post by BobF
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:27:27 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
I DID post my own announcement of Freddy's death. The post that Ray
changed to "Unconfirmed" WAS my original post. I posted it here and in the '60s
music group, where Ray saw it and posted it here as "unconfirmed",
mistakenly saying that he saw it in the '50s group.

What don't you understand about this being alt.obituaries. You DID NOT
post your own announcement on Freddy's death on THIS newsgroup. What
you first posted on alt.obits was a contradiction of Ray's OP stating
that the death was Unconfirmed - which indeed it was at the time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bob,
Even today, you are still insisting that my posting Fred Ferrara's death
was not in THIS newsgroup before Ray's.

Your post was indeed on AO before Ray's. I've linked the MID's and times
below.

Post by BobF
I can't help that mine didn't show up on YOUR server first. I have the
proof. I kept my sent mails, AND I see the time of my posting in my view of
this newsgroup even right now when I change my view to "show all messages."
I posted to alt.obituaries on 10-22 at 9:44am.

Confirmed. I saw it on my server almost immediately.

From: "The Other Diane" <***@happyretrogirl.com>
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Fred Ferrara, founding member of The Brooklyn Bridge and Del
Satins
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 09:44:04 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Lines: 24

Post by BobF
Ray reposted it here 10-22 at 2:52pm, as unconfirmed and saying that he saw
it in a music newsgroup.

Confirmed.

From: "***@iwvisp.com" <***@iwvisp.com>
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Unconfirmed: Freddy Ferrara of The Brooklyn Bridge
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 14:52:30 -0700 (PDT)
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 28
Message-ID:
<8a5183a5-cb91-4496-8383-***@x16g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

1950's music newsgroup...

UNCONFIRMED - Freddy Ferrara, who had been a member of Johnny Maestro
& The Brooklyn Bridge from the beginning, and was before that a member of
the doo wop group The Del Satins, died yesterday.

--------

Diane, by now you must have figured out that despite denials to the
contrary, BobF is a troll who has made it his life's work to harass any
poster he feels doesn't do it BobF's way.

You posted your info. He behaved badly.

Sorry you've had to put up with his boorish behavior.

[The Other Diane]

Properly replying at the bottom.

Post by Sarah Ehrett
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:38:51 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by BobF

Post by BobF
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:27:27 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
I DID post my own announcement of Freddy's death. The post that Ray
changed to "Unconfirmed" WAS my original post. I posted it here and in the '60s
music group, where Ray saw it and posted it here as "unconfirmed",
mistakenly saying that he saw it in the '50s group.

What don't you understand about this being alt.obituaries. You DID NOT
post your own announcement on Freddy's death on THIS newsgroup. What
you first posted on alt.obits was a contradiction of Ray's OP stating
that the death was Unconfirmed - which indeed it was at the time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bob,
Even today, you are still insisting that my posting Fred Ferrara's death
was not in THIS newsgroup before Ray's.

Your post was indeed on AO before Ray's. I've linked the MID's and times
below.

Post by BobF
I can't help that mine didn't show up on YOUR server first. I have the
proof. I kept my sent mails, AND I see the time of my posting in my view of
this newsgroup even right now when I change my view to "show all messages."
I posted to alt.obituaries on 10-22 at 9:44am.

Confirmed. I saw it on my server almost immediately.
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Fred Ferrara, founding member of The Brooklyn Bridge and Del
Satins
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 09:44:04 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Lines: 24

Post by BobF
Ray reposted it here 10-22 at 2:52pm, as unconfirmed and saying that he saw
it in a music newsgroup.

Confirmed.
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Unconfirmed: Freddy Ferrara of The Brooklyn Bridge
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 14:52:30 -0700 (PDT)
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 28
1950's music newsgroup...
UNCONFIRMED - Freddy Ferrara, who had been a member of Johnny Maestro
& The Brooklyn Bridge from the beginning, and was before that a member of
the doo wop group The Del Satins, died yesterday.
--------
Diane, by now you must have figured out that despite denials to the
contrary, BobF is a troll who has made it his life's work to harass any
poster he feels doesn't do it BobF's way.
You posted your info. He behaved badly.
Sorry you've had to put up with his boorish behavior.

-------------------------

Sarah,

I can't thank you enough for jumping into this mess to have the back of a
stranger. I guess I'll always be a Pollyana, even though I'm old enough to
know better, but I just don't understand how people can be so mean-spirited.

I know that some people are simply incapable of saying, "Hey, I'm sorry; you
do have a point." But I still get amazed when they go this far to avoid
facing their humanity.

I thought it was all the testosterone, but the many men friends I have are
not the kind of people who would reply to anyone the way these guys have. I
guess I need to read up on "trolls." :-)

Thank you for the moral support and validation. I can't believe how much
time and energy I've wasted on this. Your post was a welcome surprise, and I
appreciate it more than you could know.
The Other Diane

[Sarah Ehrett]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 10:04:05 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Properly replying at the bottom.

Post by Sarah Ehrett
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:38:51 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by BobF

Post by BobF
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:27:27 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
I DID post my own announcement of Freddy's death. The post that Ray
changed to "Unconfirmed" WAS my original post. I posted it here and in the '60s
music group, where Ray saw it and posted it here as "unconfirmed",
mistakenly saying that he saw it in the '50s group.

What don't you understand about this being alt.obituaries. You DID NOT
post your own announcement on Freddy's death on THIS newsgroup. What
you first posted on alt.obits was a contradiction of Ray's OP stating
that the death was Unconfirmed - which indeed it was at the time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bob,
Even today, you are still insisting that my posting Fred Ferrara's death
was not in THIS newsgroup before Ray's.

Your post was indeed on AO before Ray's. I've linked the MID's and times
below.

Post by BobF
I can't help that mine didn't show up on YOUR server first. I have the
proof. I kept my sent mails, AND I see the time of my posting in my view of
this newsgroup even right now when I change my view to "show all messages."
I posted to alt.obituaries on 10-22 at 9:44am.

Confirmed. I saw it on my server almost immediately.
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Fred Ferrara, founding member of The Brooklyn Bridge and Del
Satins
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 09:44:04 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Lines: 24

Post by BobF
Ray reposted it here 10-22 at 2:52pm, as unconfirmed and saying that he
saw it in a music newsgroup.

Confirmed.
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Unconfirmed: Freddy Ferrara of The Brooklyn Bridge
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 14:52:30 -0700 (PDT)
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 28
1950's music newsgroup...
UNCONFIRMED - Freddy Ferrara, who had been a member of Johnny Maestro
& The Brooklyn Bridge from the beginning, and was before that a member of
the doo wop group The Del Satins, died yesterday.
--------
Diane, by now you must have figured out that despite denials to the
contrary, BobF is a troll who has made it his life's work to harass any
poster he feels doesn't do it BobF's way.
You posted your info. He behaved badly.
Sorry you've had to put up with his boorish behavior.

-------------------------
Sarah,
I can't thank you enough for jumping into this mess to have the back of a
stranger. I guess I'll always be a Pollyana, even though I'm old enough to
know better, but I just don't understand how people can be so mean-spirited.
I know that some people are simply incapable of saying, "Hey, I'm sorry; you
do have a point." But I still get amazed when they go this far to avoid
facing their humanity.
I thought it was all the testosterone, but the many men friends I have are
not the kind of people who would reply to anyone the way these guys have. I
guess I need to read up on "trolls." :-)
Thank you for the moral support and validation. I can't believe how much
time and energy I've wasted on this. Your post was a welcome surprise, and I
appreciate it more than you could know.
The Other Diane

No thanks necessary Diane. :) You were correct and BobF was wrong.
The facts were always on your side. I suspect BobF's egregious conduct
stems from an over inflated opinion of his own self-importance coupled with
an inability to graciously admit when he's made an error. To be fair,
BobF has issues he's dealing with which I suspect exacerbates his behavior
as a surely curmudgeon. However in no way does that excuse him for the
treatment you received. I hope you will continue to read AO and will
feel comfortable posting again. :)

Regards, Sarah

[Bermuda999]

Post by Sarah Ehrett
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 10:04:05 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Properly replying at the bottom.

Post by Sarah Ehrett
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:38:51 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by BobF

Post by BobF
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:27:27 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
I DID post my own announcement of Freddy's death. The post that Ray
changed to "Unconfirmed" WAS my original post. I posted it here and in the '60s
music group, where Ray saw it and posted it here as "unconfirmed",
mistakenly saying that he saw it in the '50s group.

What don't you understand about this being alt.obituaries. You DID NOT
post your own announcement on Freddy's death on THIS newsgroup. What
you first posted on alt.obits was a contradiction of Ray's OP stating
that the death was Unconfirmed - which indeed it was at the time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bob,
Even today, you are still insisting that my posting Fred Ferrara's death
was not in THIS newsgroup before Ray's.

Your post was indeed on AO before Ray's.   I've linked the MID's and times
below.

Post by BobF
I can't help that mine didn't show up on YOUR server first. I have the
proof. I kept my sent mails, AND I see the time of my posting in my view of
this newsgroup even right now when I change my view to "show all messages."
I posted to alt.obituaries on 10-22 at 9:44am.

Confirmed.   I saw it on my server almost immediately.
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Fred Ferrara, founding member of The Brooklyn Bridge and Del
Satins
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 09:44:04 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Lines: 24

Post by BobF
 Ray reposted it here 10-22 at 2:52pm, as unconfirmed and saying that he
saw it in a music newsgroup.

Confirmed.
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Unconfirmed: Freddy Ferrara of The Brooklyn Bridge
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 14:52:30 -0700 (PDT)
Organization:http://groups.google.com
Lines: 28
1950's music newsgroup...
UNCONFIRMED - Freddy Ferrara, who had been a member of Johnny Maestro
& The Brooklyn Bridge from the beginning, and was before that a member of
the doo wop group The Del Satins, died yesterday.
--------
Diane, by now you must have figured out that despite denials to the
contrary, BobF is a troll who has made it his life's work to harass any
poster he feels doesn't do it BobF's way.
You posted your info.   He behaved badly.
Sorry you've had to put up with his boorish behavior.

-------------------------
Sarah,
I can't thank you enough for jumping into this mess to have the back of a
stranger. I guess I'll always be a Pollyana, even though I'm old enough to
know better, but I just don't understand how people can be so mean-spirited.
I know that some people are simply incapable of saying, "Hey, I'm sorry; you
do have a point." But I still get amazed when they go this far to avoid
facing their humanity.
I thought it was all the testosterone, but the many men friends I have are
not the kind of people who would reply to anyone the way these guys have. I
guess I need to read up on "trolls."   :-)
Thank you for the moral support and validation. I can't believe how much
time and energy I've wasted on this. Your post was a welcome surprise, and I
appreciate it more than you could know.
The Other Diane

No thanks necessary Diane.   :)     You were correct and BobF was wrong.
The facts were always on your side.   I suspect BobF's egregious conduct
stems from an over inflated opinion of his own self-importance coupled with
an inability to graciously admit when he's made an error.   To be fair,
BobF has issues he's dealing with which I suspect exacerbates his behavior
as a surely curmudgeon.  However in no way does that excuse him for the
treatment you received.   I hope you will continue to read AO  and will
feel comfortable posting again.     :)  

Please announce when the two of you are finished patting each other on
the back
(despite at least one of you STILL not understanding what "confirmed"
means in an AO context, despite several lengthy explanations)

[BobF]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 15:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Bermuda999

Post by Bermuda999

Post by Sarah Ehrett
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 10:04:05 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Properly replying at the bottom.

Post by Sarah Ehrett
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:38:51 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by BobF

Post by BobF
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:27:27 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
I DID post my own announcement of Freddy's death. The post that Ray
changed to "Unconfirmed" WAS my original post. I posted it here and in
the '60s
music group, where Ray saw it and posted it here as "unconfirmed",
mistakenly saying that he saw it in the '50s group.

What don't you understand about this being alt.obituaries. You DID NOT
post your own announcement on Freddy's death on THIS newsgroup. What
you first posted on alt.obits was a contradiction of Ray's OP stating
that the death was Unconfirmed - which indeed it was at the time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bob,
Even today, you are still insisting that my posting Fred Ferrara's death
was not in THIS newsgroup before Ray's.

Your post was indeed on AO before Ray's.   I've linked the MID's and times
below.

Post by BobF
I can't help that mine didn't show up on YOUR server first. I have the
proof. I kept my sent mails, AND I see the time of my posting in my view of
this newsgroup even right now when I change my view to "show all messages."
I posted to alt.obituaries on 10-22 at 9:44am.

Confirmed.   I saw it on my server almost immediately.
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Fred Ferrara, founding member of The Brooklyn Bridge and Del
Satins
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 09:44:04 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Lines: 24

Post by BobF
 Ray reposted it here 10-22 at 2:52pm, as unconfirmed and saying that he
saw it in a music newsgroup.

Confirmed.
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Unconfirmed: Freddy Ferrara of The Brooklyn Bridge
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 14:52:30 -0700 (PDT)
Organization:http://groups.google.com
Lines: 28
1950's music newsgroup...
UNCONFIRMED - Freddy Ferrara, who had been a member of Johnny Maestro
& The Brooklyn Bridge from the beginning, and was before that a member of
the doo wop group The Del Satins, died yesterday.
--------
Diane, by now you must have figured out that despite denials to the
contrary, BobF is a troll who has made it his life's work to harass any
poster he feels doesn't do it BobF's way.
You posted your info.   He behaved badly.
Sorry you've had to put up with his boorish behavior.

-------------------------
Sarah,
I can't thank you enough for jumping into this mess to have the back of a
stranger. I guess I'll always be a Pollyana, even though I'm old enough to
know better, but I just don't understand how people can be so mean-spirited.
I know that some people are simply incapable of saying, "Hey, I'm sorry; you
do have a point." But I still get amazed when they go this far to avoid
facing their humanity.
I thought it was all the testosterone, but the many men friends I have are
not the kind of people who would reply to anyone the way these guys have. I
guess I need to read up on "trolls."   :-)
Thank you for the moral support and validation. I can't believe how much
time and energy I've wasted on this. Your post was a welcome surprise, and I
appreciate it more than you could know.
The Other Diane

No thanks necessary Diane.   :)     You were correct and BobF was wrong.
The facts were always on your side.   I suspect BobF's egregious conduct
stems from an over inflated opinion of his own self-importance coupled with
an inability to graciously admit when he's made an error.   To be fair,
BobF has issues he's dealing with which I suspect exacerbates his behavior
as a surely curmudgeon.  However in no way does that excuse him for the
treatment you received.   I hope you will continue to read AO  and will
feel comfortable posting again.     :)  

Please announce when the two of you are finished patting each other on
the back
(despite at least one of you STILL not understanding what "confirmed"
means in an AO context, despite several lengthy explanations)

What I find curious is that The Other Dianne claims to have "been here
for over a decade " but readily accepts solace from one of
alt.obituaries most notorious trolls and someone who has never, AFAIK,
posted an obituary. BTW - "Sarah Ehrett" hides behind several
sockpuppets.

Oh well ... any port in a storm - even a storm of one's own making.

Yes ... I have located The Other Dianne's original post dated five
hours before Ray's (on my server). But it still doesn't change the
fact that "Dianne" contradicted Ray's "Unconfirmed" label when the
death was still unconfirmed. Hopefully "Pollyana" (sic) is old enough
to have learned something from all this.


--

"The only difference between an asshole and a troll is
that an asshole knows when it's full of shit." - b

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wax-up and drop-in of Surfing's Golden Years: <http://www.surfwriter.net>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Sarah Ehrett]

Post by BobF
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 15:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Bermuda999

Post by Bermuda999

Post by Sarah Ehrett
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 10:04:05 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Properly replying at the bottom.

Post by Sarah Ehrett
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:38:51 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by BobF

Post by BobF
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:27:27 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
I DID post my own announcement of Freddy's death. The post that Ray
changed to "Unconfirmed" WAS my original post. I posted it here and in
the '60s
music group, where Ray saw it and posted it here as "unconfirmed",
mistakenly saying that he saw it in the '50s group.

What don't you understand about this being alt.obituaries. You DID NOT
post your own announcement on Freddy's death on THIS newsgroup. What
you first posted on alt.obits was a contradiction of Ray's OP stating
that the death was Unconfirmed - which indeed it was at the time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bob,
Even today, you are still insisting that my posting Fred Ferrara's death
was not in THIS newsgroup before Ray's.

Your post was indeed on AO before Ray's.   I've linked the MID's and times
below.

Post by BobF
I can't help that mine didn't show up on YOUR server first. I have the
proof. I kept my sent mails, AND I see the time of my posting in my view of
this newsgroup even right now when I change my view to "show all messages."
I posted to alt.obituaries on 10-22 at 9:44am.

Confirmed.   I saw it on my server almost immediately.
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Fred Ferrara, founding member of The Brooklyn Bridge and Del
Satins
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 09:44:04 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Lines: 24

Post by BobF
 Ray reposted it here 10-22 at 2:52pm, as unconfirmed and saying that he
saw it in a music newsgroup.

Confirmed.
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Unconfirmed: Freddy Ferrara of The Brooklyn Bridge
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 14:52:30 -0700 (PDT)
Organization:http://groups.google.com
Lines: 28
1950's music newsgroup...
UNCONFIRMED - Freddy Ferrara, who had been a member of Johnny Maestro
& The Brooklyn Bridge from the beginning, and was before that a member of
the doo wop group The Del Satins, died yesterday.
--------
Diane, by now you must have figured out that despite denials to the
contrary, BobF is a troll who has made it his life's work to harass any
poster he feels doesn't do it BobF's way.
You posted your info.   He behaved badly.
Sorry you've had to put up with his boorish behavior.

-------------------------
Sarah,
I can't thank you enough for jumping into this mess to have the back of a
stranger. I guess I'll always be a Pollyana, even though I'm old enough to
know better, but I just don't understand how people can be so mean-spirited.
I know that some people are simply incapable of saying, "Hey, I'm sorry; you
do have a point." But I still get amazed when they go this far to avoid
facing their humanity.
I thought it was all the testosterone, but the many men friends I have are
not the kind of people who would reply to anyone the way these guys have. I
guess I need to read up on "trolls."   :-)
Thank you for the moral support and validation. I can't believe how much
time and energy I've wasted on this. Your post was a welcome surprise, and I
appreciate it more than you could know.
The Other Diane

No thanks necessary Diane.   :)     You were correct and BobF was wrong.
The facts were always on your side.   I suspect BobF's egregious conduct
stems from an over inflated opinion of his own self-importance coupled with
an inability to graciously admit when he's made an error.   To be fair,
BobF has issues he's dealing with which I suspect exacerbates his behavior
as a surely curmudgeon.  However in no way does that excuse him for the
treatment you received.   I hope you will continue to read AO  and will
feel comfortable posting again.     :)  

Please announce when the two of you are finished patting each other on
the back (despite at least one of you STILL not understanding what "confirmed"
means in an AO context, despite several lengthy explanations)

What I find curious is that The Other Dianne claims to have "been here
for over a decade "

Here you are again attacking someone without cause or substantiation.
You jump on every new post written by someone you don't know accusing them
of being either a) a troll or b) a sockpuppet.

Post by BobF
but readily accepts solace from one of alt.obituaries most notorious trolls and someone who has >never, AFAIK, posted an obituary.

I have indeed posted more than one obit Bob. Apparently you missed them
hiding behind your kill filter, [ a feat I might add which you couldn't
have managed had I not instructed you on how to use your Agent newsreader
filters ] annoyed because you refused to admit I was correct about APN
being a news server and not a newsreader. <chuckle> Old times, Bob but
you're still as cranky and disagreeable as ever.

BTW is the requirement of posting an obit a pre-requisite to being on AO?

Post by BobF
BTW - "Sarah Ehrett" hides behind several sockpuppets.

Go ahead and name one and prove your case Bob.

Frankly I'm sick and tired of reading your lies and abusive posts leveled
at Roy, MWB, and others.

[The Other Diane]

Post by BobF
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 15:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Bermuda999

Post by Bermuda999

Post by Sarah Ehrett
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 10:04:05 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Properly replying at the bottom.

Post by Sarah Ehrett
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:38:51 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by BobF

Post by BobF
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:27:27 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
I DID post my own announcement of Freddy's death. The post that Ray
changed to "Unconfirmed" WAS my original post. I posted it here and in
the '60s
music group, where Ray saw it and posted it here as "unconfirmed",
mistakenly saying that he saw it in the '50s group.

What don't you understand about this being alt.obituaries. You DID NOT
post your own announcement on Freddy's death on THIS newsgroup. What
you first posted on alt.obits was a contradiction of Ray's OP stating
that the death was Unconfirmed - which indeed it was at the time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bob,
Even today, you are still insisting that my posting Fred Ferrara's death
was not in THIS newsgroup before Ray's.

Your post was indeed on AO before Ray's. I've linked the MID's and
times
below.

Post by BobF
I can't help that mine didn't show up on YOUR server first. I have the
proof. I kept my sent mails, AND I see the time of my posting in my
view
of
this newsgroup even right now when I change my view to "show all messages."
I posted to alt.obituaries on 10-22 at 9:44am.

Confirmed. I saw it on my server almost immediately.
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Fred Ferrara, founding member of The Brooklyn Bridge and Del
Satins
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 09:44:04 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Lines: 24

Post by BobF
Ray reposted it here 10-22 at 2:52pm, as unconfirmed and saying that he
saw it in a music newsgroup.

Confirmed.
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Unconfirmed: Freddy Ferrara of The Brooklyn Bridge
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 14:52:30 -0700 (PDT)
Organization:http://groups.google.com
Lines: 28
1950's music newsgroup...
UNCONFIRMED - Freddy Ferrara, who had been a member of Johnny Maestro
& The Brooklyn Bridge from the beginning, and was before that a member of
the doo wop group The Del Satins, died yesterday.
--------
Diane, by now you must have figured out that despite denials to the
contrary, BobF is a troll who has made it his life's work to harass any
poster he feels doesn't do it BobF's way.
You posted your info. He behaved badly.
Sorry you've had to put up with his boorish behavior.

-------------------------
Sarah,
I can't thank you enough for jumping into this mess to have the back of a
stranger. I guess I'll always be a Pollyana, even though I'm old enough to
know better, but I just don't understand how people can be so mean-spirited.
I know that some people are simply incapable of saying, "Hey, I'm sorry; you
do have a point." But I still get amazed when they go this far to avoid
facing their humanity.
I thought it was all the testosterone, but the many men friends I have are
not the kind of people who would reply to anyone the way these guys have. I
guess I need to read up on "trolls." :-)
Thank you for the moral support and validation. I can't believe how much
time and energy I've wasted on this. Your post was a welcome surprise, and I
appreciate it more than you could know.
The Other Diane

No thanks necessary Diane. :) You were correct and BobF was wrong.
The facts were always on your side. I suspect BobF's egregious conduct
stems from an over inflated opinion of his own self-importance coupled with
an inability to graciously admit when he's made an error. To be fair,
BobF has issues he's dealing with which I suspect exacerbates his behavior
as a surely curmudgeon. However in no way does that excuse him for the
treatment you received. I hope you will continue to read AO and will
feel comfortable posting again. :)

Please announce when the two of you are finished patting each other on
the back
(despite at least one of you STILL not understanding what "confirmed"
means in an AO context, despite several lengthy explanations)

What I find curious is that The Other Dianne claims to have "been here
for over a decade " but readily accepts solace from one of
alt.obituaries most notorious trolls and someone who has never, AFAIK,
posted an obituary. BTW - "Sarah Ehrett" hides behind several
sockpuppets.
Oh well ... any port in a storm - even a storm of one's own making.
Yes ... I have located The Other Dianne's original post dated five
hours before Ray's (on my server). But it still doesn't change the
fact that "Dianne" contradicted Ray's "Unconfirmed" label when the
death was still unconfirmed. Hopefully "Pollyana" (sic) is old enough
to have learned something from all this.

Yes, Bob, I HAVE learned something from all this. I've learned that people
like you, who can hide anonymously behind a computer screen and ignore facts
and offers of credentials and alternate ways of proof, who continue to
attack someone instead of, as Sarah so aptly put it, being gracious enough
to admit he's made a mistake, would probably jump off a cliff rather than
ever backing down and admitting they might've been the teensiest bit wrong
about ANYTHING...

Bob, there IS a word for you. I'm sure you've been called it before: it's
"anal retentive." Try some milk of magnesia.

And Sarah, even though my facts were right, you deserve a thanks for
stepping into this. And thanks for explaining a little about Bob. I
sometimes need a wake-up call to stop innately always expecting the best of
people.

The Other Diane

[Sarah Ehrett]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:07:49 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Bob, there IS a word for you. I'm sure you've been called it before: it's
"anal retentive." Try some milk of magnesia.
And Sarah, even though my facts were right, you deserve a thanks for
stepping into this. And thanks for explaining a little about Bob. I
sometimes need a wake-up call to stop innately always expecting the best of
people.

Again, no thanks necessary and I'm sorry to hear about Freddy's passing.

Cheers, Sarah

Post by The Other Diane
The Other Diane

[Sarah Ehrett]

Post by BobF
Yes ... I have located The Other Dianne's original post dated five
hours before Ray's (on my server). But it still doesn't change the
fact that "Dianne" contradicted Ray's "Unconfirmed" label when the
death was still unconfirmed.

Please explain to me how Diane's post could be a contradiction of a post
made 5 hours after hers?

Post by BobF
Hopefully "Pollyana" (sic) is old enough to have learned something from all this.

At the very least she's learned you're an anally retentive screwball who
can't spell " Diane".

[Kris Baker]

Post by Bermuda999
Please announce when the two of you are finished

I think we just learned that it's the "one of you".

Kris

[The Other Diane]

Post by Kris Baker

Post by Bermuda999
Please announce when the two of you are finished

I think we just learned that it's the "one of you".
Kris

Aww, Kris, it's so nice to know that another troll would step into a
situation without knowing ANYTHING about ANYTHING. Thanks for your brilliant
input.

Truly, I wondered if Sarah is someone who knows me in real life who stepped
in with an alias to support me, but if she has posted here sporadically as
Bob claims, then she is definitely NOT someone I know. You want proof? Does
anyone here EVER offer to give their credentials as I have? I know that's a
big word, so let me just say I offered to identify myself, which means
leading you to my websites. But none of you like-minded flamers would want
that, because then you might be shown up to be the asses that you are.

The Other Diane

[BobF]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:16:01 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane

Post by Kris Baker

Post by Bermuda999
Please announce when the two of you are finished

I think we just learned that it's the "one of you".
Kris

Aww, Kris, it's so nice to know that another troll would step into a
situation without knowing ANYTHING about ANYTHING. Thanks for your brilliant
input.

Again ... if you had "been here for over a decade but I rarely post"
then you must barely read as well. Because, unlike you, Kris is a
regular contributor.

Post by The Other Diane
Truly, I wondered if Sarah is someone who knows me in real life who stepped
in with an alias to support me, but if she has posted here sporadically as
Bob claims, then she is definitely NOT someone I know. You want proof? Does
anyone here EVER offer to give their credentials as I have? I know that's a
big word, so let me just say I offered to identify myself, which means
leading you to my websites. But none of you like-minded flamers would want
that, because then you might be shown up to be the asses that you are.

I didn't say Sarah posts sporadically. I said that I doubt that Sarah
has ever posted an obituary on alt.obituaries. I said that she's a
troll who hides behind a number of sockpuppets and has been thoroughly
discredited in this group. Then if you had "been here for over a
decade but I rarely post." you would have known that already.

[Sarah Ehrett]

Post by BobF
I didn't say Sarah posts sporadically. I said that I doubt that Sarah
has ever posted an obituary on alt.obituaries.

And you'd be wrong Bob. I've asked once already : Where is a posting an
obituary a prerequisite to being on AO?

Post by BobF
I said that she's a troll who hides behind a number of sockpuppets

And that's a lie. I've already asked you to give a name and make your
case.

If you prefer to ignore that request then the only conclusion has to be
that you are a liar and cannot back up your accusation.

Post by BobF
and has been thoroughly discredited in this group.

Says BobF who has compiled seven volumes of " The Sayings of Roy " for the
sole purpose of harassing another AO poster.

LOL. You have a screw loose, Feigel.

[Kris Baker]

Post by BobF
On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:16:01 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane

Post by Kris Baker

Post by Bermuda999
Please announce when the two of you are finished

I think we just learned that it's the "one of you".
Kris

Aww, Kris, it's so nice to know that another troll would
step into a situation without knowing ANYTHING about

<< ANYTHING. Thanks for your brilliant input.

Post by BobF
Again ... if you had "been here for over a decade but I rarely post"
then you must barely read as well. Because, unlike you, Kris is a
regular contributor.

Actually, it gave exactly the anticipated response, and
sealed the deal.

Kris

[The Other Diane]

Post by Kris Baker

Post by BobF
On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:16:01 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane

Post by Kris Baker

Post by Bermuda999
Please announce when the two of you are finished

I think we just learned that it's the "one of you".
Kris

Aww, Kris, it's so nice to know that another troll would
step into a situation without knowing ANYTHING about

<< ANYTHING. Thanks for your brilliant input.

Post by BobF
Again ... if you had "been here for over a decade but I rarely post"
then you must barely read as well. Because, unlike you, Kris is a
regular contributor.

Actually, it gave exactly the anticipated response, and
sealed the deal.
Kris

Well, Kris, I'm not even sure what you're referring to, regarding getting
the anticipated response, but let me say here that this thread has turned
into a source of amusement for me, so if you think you upset me, you didn't.
But thanks again for your welcome and eloquent observations.
The Other Diane

[Sarah Ehrett]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:16:01 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane

Post by Kris Baker

Post by Bermuda999
Please announce when the two of you are finished

I think we just learned that it's the "one of you".
Kris

Aww, Kris, it's so nice to know that another troll would step into a
situation without knowing ANYTHING about ANYTHING. Thanks for your brilliant
input.

Kris < cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo > is saying that she thinks they've just
learned that you and I are one in the same.

Post by The Other Diane
Truly, I wondered if Sarah is someone who knows me in real life who stepped
in with an alias to support me, but if she has posted here sporadically as
Bob claims, then she is definitely NOT someone I know.

That's true, I don't know you but I think if we ever met we could enjoy a
cup of tea and laugh over BobF and his antics. :)

[The Other Diane]

Post by BobF
On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:16:01 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane

Post by Kris Baker

Post by Bermuda999
Please announce when the two of you are finished

I think we just learned that it's the "one of you".
Kris

Aww, Kris, it's so nice to know that another troll would step into a
situation without knowing ANYTHING about ANYTHING. Thanks for your brilliant
input.

Kris < cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo > is saying that she thinks they've just
learned that you and I are one in the same.

Post by The Other Diane
Truly, I wondered if Sarah is someone who knows me in real life who stepped
in with an alias to support me, but if she has posted here sporadically as
Bob claims, then she is definitely NOT someone I know.

That's true, I don't know you but I think if we ever met we could enjoy a
cup of tea and laugh over BobF and his antics. :)

Hmmmm, Sarah.... Yes, I knew that Kris was implying that we are the same
person. (See my reply to Bob from a little earlier today).

I think that shows that Kris must be a newbie, because anyone else would
know that IP addresses can be checked, and if someone were to do that, Kris
would look like even more of an idiot, putting forth a claim like that,
which can be EASILY disproved.

I had already wanted to say that you seem to be the kind of person that I'd
want to count among my friends, but I was afraid they would run with that as
some sort of admission that we are already friends.

And I figured that Kris is a man. After all, I realize now that I rarely see
any names posting here that appear to be women, and it has become clear to
me that I'm dealing with a bunch of misogynists who would never expect a
woman to be intelligent enough to interact among them.

The Other Diane

[Terry del Fuego]

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:15:38 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Hmmmm, Sarah.... Yes, I knew that Kris was implying that we are the same
person. (See my reply to Bob from a little earlier today).

If you're the same person, you're smart enough to let "Diane" be able
to spell while "Sarah" continues to abuse apostrophes, amongst other
war crimes.

Post by The Other Diane
I think that shows that Kris must be a newbie, because anyone else would
know that IP addresses can be checked, and if someone were to do that, Kris
would look like even more of an idiot, putting forth a claim like that,
which can be EASILY disproved.

On the other hand, this is completely insane: IP addresses are rarely
included in headers these days, with very good reason. Google Groups
seems to include them, but they are not in your posts or Sarah's.

Post by The Other Diane
And I figured that Kris is a man. After all, I realize now that I rarely see
any names posting here that appear to be women, and it has become clear to
me that I'm dealing with a bunch of misogynists who would never expect a
woman to be intelligent enough to interact among them.

I'm not entirely convinced that what you've been doing isn't some
elaborate performance art. You might want to back it off a bit before
others catch on. For now, it'll be our little secret.

Post by The Other Diane
I don't pay much attention to the names of posters

Then perhaps the smart move would be to resist the urge to say
something easily disproven.

Post by The Other Diane
Knowing Bob's real name doesn't concern me. It's a big world, and just
knowing his name doesn't mean he isn't hiding behind the safety of a pretty
anonymous bulletin board to attack someone he doesn't have a clue about.

Ah...when wrong about alleged anonymity, change the meaning of
"anonymous". Brilliant!

Post by The Other Diane
So why can't this all come to an end?

You tell me.

For what it's worth, I agree that what started this was relatively
petty. But I'm fascinated by what has transpired since. Of course,
one of the biggest things that fascinates me both here and in the real
world is clueless hypocrisy.

[The Other Diane]

Post by Terry del Fuego
On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:15:38 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Hmmmm, Sarah.... Yes, I knew that Kris was implying that we are the same
person. (See my reply to Bob from a little earlier today).

If you're the same person, you're smart enough to let "Diane" be able
to spell while "Sarah" continues to abuse apostrophes, amongst other
war crimes.

Post by The Other Diane
I think that shows that Kris must be a newbie, because anyone else would
know that IP addresses can be checked, and if someone were to do that, Kris
would look like even more of an idiot, putting forth a claim like that,
which can be EASILY disproved.

On the other hand, this is completely insane: IP addresses are rarely
included in headers these days, with very good reason. Google Groups
seems to include them, but they are not in your posts or Sarah's.

Post by The Other Diane
And I figured that Kris is a man. After all, I realize now that I rarely see
any names posting here that appear to be women, and it has become clear to
me that I'm dealing with a bunch of misogynists who would never expect a
woman to be intelligent enough to interact among them.

I'm not entirely convinced that what you've been doing isn't some
elaborate performance art. You might want to back it off a bit before
others catch on. For now, it'll be our little secret.

Post by The Other Diane
I don't pay much attention to the names of posters

Then perhaps the smart move would be to resist the urge to say
something easily disproven.

Post by The Other Diane
Knowing Bob's real name doesn't concern me. It's a big world, and just
knowing his name doesn't mean he isn't hiding behind the safety of a pretty
anonymous bulletin board to attack someone he doesn't have a clue about.

Ah...when wrong about alleged anonymity, change the meaning of
"anonymous". Brilliant!

Post by The Other Diane
So why can't this all come to an end?

You tell me.
For what it's worth, I agree that what started this was relatively
petty. But I'm fascinated by what has transpired since. Of course,
one of the biggest things that fascinates me both here and in the real
world is clueless hypocrisy.

I have to say this, Terry. You are not unlikeable, and your comments made me
smile. I'm glad to enter into an exchange with someone who can make good
points with semi-good-humor, and have an adult discussion...although I do
have to ignore your implication that I am clueless or hypocritical, so I
will. (Unless you would like to explain what I've said that is
hypocritical.)

I don't think I've said something that is easily disproven, unless you're
referring to the apparent change in ability to see IP addresses.

My comment about those being easy to find comes from recalling a semi-recent
thread, in which someone was trying to prove that two or more posters were
the same person, and I remember seeing a long list of proof that included IP
numbers along with times and dates of their postings.

As I've said, my interest here is to see who has died. I don't look at
headers to try to identify or attack people or keep up with the changing
ways of usenet. The last I knew, it was easy to check IP numbers. Sorry if
I'm wrong about that.

As for my changing the definition of "anonymity", I will clarify: The chance
of people's having any true knowledge about Bob just by knowing his full
name (and I say this without wasting the time to look at his website, so
maybe he's famous) are low. Just using his rigid rules of proof of a death,
a website doesn't even necessarily reflect reality.

But even if his real name is "out there," I meant that he is not someone in
the public eye who could be held up to a "wider audience" for his
unkindnesses, his errors, and his anal retentivity.

I haven't said anything here that I am embarrassed to have attributed to me
in real world terms. My name is slightly more known to a wider world than
Bob's, I think, so if I were held by a wider audience to this thread, I
could hold my head up high. Could Bob?

Or is he "safe" (as I believe) because we here in ao are in a very little
world, with then only a small percentage of people (regulars and mere
obit-checkers like myself) even following this conversation.

Most people in my "real world" don't even know what usenet is, or
newsgroups. If this ridiculous series of attacks on me were to be read by a
larger world, I don't think Bob would be comfortable attacking me as he has
done.

I, too, am fascinated at what has transpired here. And that's why I chose to
reply to you, because in some way we could almost maybe have a friendly and
mentally challenging acquaintance.

And no, I wasn't aiming at performance art, but I have to say I like the way
you think.

The Other Diane

[B. R. Slim]

I have to say this, Terry...blah blah blah

<snipped tedious screed>

"So why can't this all come to an end?"

[Terry del Fuego]

On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:41:29 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
I have to say this, Terry. You are not unlikeable, and your comments made me
smile. I'm glad to enter into an exchange with someone who can make good
points with semi-good-humor, and have an adult discussion...although I do
have to ignore your implication that I am clueless or hypocritical, so I
will. (Unless you would like to explain what I've said that is
hypocritical.)

In a nutshell, I don't care who anyone really is or says they are. I
care about what they post here. I strongly prefer anonymity, though
I've used this name in various contexts since the early 1970s (i.e.,
many who know me in the real world, would have no problem finding my
rantings). I don't think "Terry del Fuego" or "The Other Diane" are
in any position to cast stones toward someone who has used various
versions of his real name for a very long time now.

I think this has senselessly dragged on long enough. Worse, if I
can't get you to help me turn this into a profane screaming match,
it's no fun.

[The Other Diane]

Post by Terry del Fuego
On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:41:29 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
I have to say this, Terry. You are not unlikeable, and your comments made me
smile. I'm glad to enter into an exchange with someone who can make good
points with semi-good-humor, and have an adult discussion...although I do
have to ignore your implication that I am clueless or hypocritical, so I
will. (Unless you would like to explain what I've said that is
hypocritical.)

In a nutshell, I don't care who anyone really is or says they are. I
care about what they post here. I strongly prefer anonymity, though
I've used this name in various contexts since the early 1970s (i.e.,
many who know me in the real world, would have no problem finding my
rantings). I don't think "Terry del Fuego" or "The Other Diane" are
in any position to cast stones toward someone who has used various
versions of his real name for a very long time now.
I think this has senselessly dragged on long enough. Worse, if I
can't get you to help me turn this into a profane screaming match,
it's no fun.

Truly LOL. Terry, I think I really DO like you!
The Other Diane

[Terry del Fuego]

Post by Sarah Ehrett
The facts were always on your side. I suspect BobF's egregious conduct
stems from an over inflated opinion of his own self-importance coupled with
an inability to graciously admit when he's made an error.

"Wooosh. I certainly missed the obvious there.." --Bob, just two days
ago..

Post by Sarah Ehrett
you refused to admit I was correct about APN
being a news server and not a newsreader

You (as "Czepiel"), July 18, 2007: "Might I suggest as an alternitive
[sic] Agent or [ APN ] as a News Service?"

Alan Hope, July 18, 2007: "Agent is not any kind of news service. It's
a news reader. You can't use it for groups unless you have access to a
news server, either with your ISP or through some other means, such as
individual.net or some paying service."

J.D. Baldwin, July 18, 2007: "Agent isn't a news service, but APN is.
Pretty good one, I hear."

You, July 18, 2007: "I have both Agent and APN. APN is IMHO the best
news service available as it uses Supernews servers which are never
down and never slow. Worth every penny of the $ 2.95 a month which
is why I suggested it . :)"

Bob, directly responding to your post, July 18, 2007: "Agreed. I've
also used individual.net, and their retention on text groups is pretty
good. Where APN is far superior is that they have access to binaries
groups (individual.net is text only), their retention is the best I've
seen and both posting and downloading with APN is very, very fast.
And, as you've said, their servers have not been down - or slow -
since I signed up."

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:07:49 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by Sarah Ehrett
Yes, Bob, I HAVE learned something from all this. I've learned that people
like you, who can hide anonymously behind a computer screen

Anyone who's really been here as long as you claim knows Bob's full
name, which has never been any kind of secret at all.

[Sarah Ehrett]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:43:44 -0700, Terry del Fuego

Post by Terry del Fuego

Post by Sarah Ehrett
The facts were always on your side. I suspect BobF's egregious conduct
stems from an over inflated opinion of his own self-importance coupled with
an inability to graciously admit when he's made an error.

"Wooosh. I certainly missed the obvious there.." --Bob, just two days
ago..

Post by Sarah Ehrett
you refused to admit I was correct about APN
being a news server and not a newsreader

You (as "Czepiel"), July 18, 2007: "Might I suggest as an alternitive
[sic] Agent or [ APN ] as a News Service?"
Alan Hope, July 18, 2007: "Agent is not any kind of news service. It's
a news reader. You can't use it for groups unless you have access to a
news server, either with your ISP or through some other means, such as
individual.net or some paying service."
J.D. Baldwin, July 18, 2007: "Agent isn't a news service, but APN is.
Pretty good one, I hear."
You, July 18, 2007: "I have both Agent and APN. APN is IMHO the best
news service available as it uses Supernews servers which are never
down and never slow. Worth every penny of the $ 2.95 a month which
is why I suggested it . :)"
Bob, directly responding to your post, July 18, 2007: "Agreed. I've
also used individual.net, and their retention on text groups is pretty
good. Where APN is far superior is that they have access to binaries
groups (individual.net is text only), their retention is the best I've
seen and both posting and downloading with APN is very, very fast.
And, as you've said, their servers have not been down - or slow -
since I signed up."

Since you chose not to include links to your cites or MID's I checked on
these quotes and they are indeed accurate.

To: BobF

Bob, I was in error. It was Alan Hope and NOT you who I had the
conversation with over APN. Clearly my memory was faulty and I apologize
to you for my misstatement of the facts.

Regards, Sarah Ehrett

Post by Terry del Fuego
On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:07:49 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by Sarah Ehrett
Yes, Bob, I HAVE learned something from all this. I've learned that people
like you, who can hide anonymously behind a computer screen

Anyone who's really been here as long as you claim knows Bob's full
name, which has never been any kind of secret at all.

[The Other Diane]

Post by Terry del Fuego
On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:07:49 -0800, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Yes, Bob, I HAVE learned something from all this. I've learned that people
like you, who can hide anonymously behind a computer screen

Anyone who's really been here as long as you claim knows Bob's full
name, which has never been any kind of secret at all.

Thanks for your input, Terry. I think this depends on your definition of
"been here". My definition of being here for 15 years is, as I have
explained already, I check the obits group once every morning while doing my
routine e-mail and other Internet activities.

I read ONLY the posts whose subject lines interest me. I've had friends and
acquaintances in the TV and music industries for over 35 years, most of whom
I don't keep in touch with. So, it's meaningful for me to know of their
passings, and this is the easiest place to keep up with that news,
especially for lesser known people, whose deaths I might otherwise not hear
about in a timely manner.

I don't pay much attention to the names of posters, although I have
certainly noticed your
name and other names that show up a lot, in skimming the headers every day.

I don't post unless I have something to add to a conversation, which is
rare. I don't consider the "players" here to be names that I have to pay
attention to, except for what has seeped into my brain from noticing long,
stupid, flaming, unnecessary threads like this one.

As I am not a regular poster, I understand that I am now being scrutinized
every which way, because my initial posting could "not be trusted" because I
am not known here.

It is not among my life's pursuits to be "known" here. I did not stop to
consider the suspicion that is automatically thrown onto someone who posts
an obituary and isn't "one of the crowd."

Knowing Bob's real name doesn't concern me. It's a big world, and just
knowing his name doesn't mean he isn't hiding behind the safety of a pretty
anonymous bulletin board to attack someone he doesn't have a clue about. I
think my credentials-- regarding my knowledge, my connections, and my
journalistic reputation-- would put egg on his face.

I feel pretty sure at this point that he has looked up my previous postings
in usenet and realizes he has nothing to attack me about. So why can't this
all come to an end?

The fact is, I posted a legitimate obituary. Can we please let a very nice
and talented man whom I knew for over 35 years rest in peace now?

The Other Diane

[Bermuda999]

On Oct 31, 4:46 pm, "The Other Diane" <***@happyretrogirl.com>
wrote:
(much cut)

Post by The Other Diane
The fact is, I posted a legitimate obituary.

And made the mistake of labeling it "Confirmed" when it was not,
according to AO standards. You still appear to be unable to grasp the
concept.

Post by The Other Diane
So why can't this all come to an end?

Indeed

[rwalker]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 15:47:46 -0700, "The Other Diane"

Post by The Other Diane
Fred Ferrara death

Well, now he's listed on the Dead Rock Stars Club web site:

http://thedeadrockstarsclub.com/2011b.html

[t***@iwvisp.com]

Post by The Other Diane
All that Ray Arthur had to do was look for the **tiniest** iota of
information online rather than rushing to undermine a posting that way.
 The Other Diane

Yawn.

Ray Arthur

[Matt John]

Post by t***@iwvisp.com

Post by The Other Diane
All that Ray Arthur had to do was look for the **tiniest** iota of
information online rather than rushing to undermine a posting that way.
 The Other Diane

Yawn.
Ray Arthur

Obituaries have been linked. Would you like the number to Jesus Christ
himself before you change the "Unconfirmed"? If Bob is such a
moderation influence and not just trolling Diane he should have been
pushing for the Unconfirmed status to change since an obituary direct
from the funeral home was linked. And if he trolls 8 year old girls
like you implied I would worry about him posting anywhere.

[Roy D'Loon]

Post by Matt John

Post by The Other Diane
All that Ray Arthur had to do was look for the **tiniest** iota of
information online rather than rushing to undermine a posting that way.

Yawn.

Obituaries have been linked. Would you like the number to Jesus Christ
himself before you change the "Unconfirmed"? If Bob is such a
moderation influence and not just trolling Diane he should have been
pushing for the Unconfirmed status to change since an obituary direct
from the funeral home was linked. And if he trolls 8 year old girls
like you implied I would worry about him posting anywhere.

You obviously don't get it. Maybe you really are a newb. If you've been
here for any extended period of time, you'd know the Unemployed Eight
Year-Old Girl is Roy "News" LIEberman, who happens to be, in reality, a
retarded 50-something guy. He just rants like a frustrated little girl
here on a regular basis. Bob even took the time to compile seven
illustrious volumes of "The Sayings of Roy". Man, where the hell have
you been?!

[The Other Diane]

1. If Bob were operating in good faith, acting as a sincere moderator, and
his aim was really to try to confirm or discount an obituary because I have
"no track record", then he would've taken the reins after my FIRST reply and
gone straight to the Brooklyn Bridge's website and CALLED their office. He
didn't need to harp on my giving links when he could've gone straight to the
source with what I DID give him.

2. I offered to identify myself and give my credentials, but he deftly
avoided addressing that part of that reply. Why? Because he couldn't take
the risk of looking like an ass for attacking me personally and harping on
asinine protocol, when I just might not be a clueless, rumor-monging newbie
who is too stupid to understand the rules.

3. This whole situation could've been handled quickly and efficiently
without its turning into this idiocy, by Ray's or Bob's just taking a MOMENT
to find corroboration of my posting.

4. I find it really interesting that Ray's brilliant reply is "yawn" and Bob
has ignored my last reply, in which I APOLOGIZED for my knee-jerk reaction
at the start, and EXPLAINED that my posting was sent before Ray's and that
this whole thing may have sprung from that misunderstanding, AND that I
realize now that Ray MIGHT have intended his post as an actual notification
of a possible death and not as an undermining of my post by changing its
title to "unconfirmed." Are either of you two guys even capable of THINKING
of apologizing for anything at all?

5. When I made my first knee-jerk reply, all that Ray or Bob had to do was
read it to see that it came from THE OTHER DIANE, and that the original
posting that Ray was reposting here ALSO came from THE OTHER DIANE. I made
the mistake of thinking that Bob would be smart enough to KNOW that I had
indeed BEEN the original poster.

[Roy D'Loon]

1. If Bob were operating in good faith, <snip>

Rant much?

[Kris Baker]

Post by The Other Diane
1. If Bob were operating in good faith,

(snip 5,000 lines of trolling)

[t***@iwvisp.com]

Post by The Other Diane
1. If Bob were operating in good faith, acting as a sincere moderator, and
his aim was really to try to confirm or discount an obituary because I have
"no track record", then he would've taken the reins after my FIRST reply and
gone straight to the Brooklyn Bridge's website and CALLED their office. He
didn't need to harp on my giving links when he could've gone straight to the
source with what I DID give him.
2. I offered to identify myself and give my credentials, but he deftly
avoided addressing that part of that reply. Why? Because he couldn't take
the risk of looking like an ass for attacking me personally and harping on
asinine protocol, when I just might not be a clueless, rumor-monging newbie
who is too stupid to understand the rules.
3. This whole situation could've been handled quickly and efficiently
without its turning into this idiocy, by Ray's or Bob's just taking a MOMENT
to find corroboration of my posting.
4. I find it really interesting that Ray's brilliant reply is "yawn" and Bob
has ignored my last reply, in which I APOLOGIZED for my knee-jerk reaction
at the start, and EXPLAINED that my posting was sent before Ray's and that
this whole thing may have sprung from that misunderstanding, AND that I
realize now that Ray MIGHT have intended his post as an actual notification
of a possible death and not as an undermining of my post by changing its
title to "unconfirmed." Are either of you two guys even capable of THINKING
of apologizing for anything at all?
5. When I made my first knee-jerk reply, all that Ray or Bob had to do was
read it to see that it came from THE OTHER DIANE, and that the original
posting that Ray was reposting here ALSO came from THE OTHER DIANE. I made
the mistake of thinking that Bob would be smart enough to KNOW that I had
indeed BEEN the original poster.

I hereby apologize for posting an Obit on this group ... what's it
called again? :)

More seriously, I surf several newsgroups and I don't recall on what
music newsgroup I had found this info. It didn't have a publishing
credit slug at the top which made it "Unconfirmed" to me. Prior to cut
& pasting, I Googled Ferrara's name and came up zip with death info.
My simple intention was to post the info of a musician's unconfirmed
death to this NG because I thought it might be of interest and it
hadn't been previously posted.

Secondly, I've only been here since '93 or '94 so, as a newbie, a
never got the Memo that if I post something as "Unconfirmed" it's my
job to change the title if and when it's confirmed. I'm not sure I
even know how to do that.

Ray Arthur

[The Other Diane]

Reply now properly bottom-posted wayyyyy below.

Post by The Other Diane
1. If Bob were operating in good faith, acting as a sincere moderator, and
his aim was really to try to confirm or discount an obituary because I have
"no track record", then he would've taken the reins after my FIRST reply and
gone straight to the Brooklyn Bridge's website and CALLED their office. He
didn't need to harp on my giving links when he could've gone straight to the
source with what I DID give him.
2. I offered to identify myself and give my credentials, but he deftly
avoided addressing that part of that reply. Why? Because he couldn't take
the risk of looking like an ass for attacking me personally and harping on
asinine protocol, when I just might not be a clueless, rumor-monging newbie
who is too stupid to understand the rules.
3. This whole situation could've been handled quickly and efficiently
without its turning into this idiocy, by Ray's or Bob's just taking a MOMENT
to find corroboration of my posting.
4. I find it really interesting that Ray's brilliant reply is "yawn" and Bob
has ignored my last reply, in which I APOLOGIZED for my knee-jerk reaction
at the start, and EXPLAINED that my posting was sent before Ray's and that
this whole thing may have sprung from that misunderstanding, AND that I
realize now that Ray MIGHT have intended his post as an actual
notification
of a possible death and not as an undermining of my post by changing its
title to "unconfirmed." Are either of you two guys even capable of THINKING
of apologizing for anything at all?
5. When I made my first knee-jerk reply, all that Ray or Bob had to do was
read it to see that it came from THE OTHER DIANE, and that the original
posting that Ray was reposting here ALSO came from THE OTHER DIANE. I made
the mistake of thinking that Bob would be smart enough to KNOW that I had
indeed BEEN the original poster.

I hereby apologize for posting an Obit on this group ... what's it
called again? :)

More seriously, I surf several newsgroups and I don't recall on what
music newsgroup I had found this info. It didn't have a publishing
credit slug at the top which made it "Unconfirmed" to me. Prior to cut
& pasting, I Googled Ferrara's name and came up zip with death info.
My simple intention was to post the info of a musician's unconfirmed
death to this NG because I thought it might be of interest and it
hadn't been previously posted.

Secondly, I've only been here since '93 or '94 so, as a newbie, a
never got the Memo that if I post something as "Unconfirmed" it's my
job to change the title if and when it's confirmed. I'm not sure I
even know how to do that.

Ray Arthur

Ray,
I have ALREADY stated that I now realize that your intent was to post the
obit as an actual death notice, albeit unconfirmed, which you saw in another
group.

I even, God-forbid in your world, APOLOGIZED for my knee-jerk reaction in
assuming that your posting was meant to undermine my report.

Everything that has sprung from this has been unwarranted snipes at me.

Your dissing "Yawn" response to my suggestion that you could've checked on
the obit's validity was hurtful and inflammatory. Do you have ANY experience
with women and their emotions? Jeesh. You could've addressed it by
saying THEN that you had searched and found nothing, instead of a response
that was intended only to be mean.

I hope you and Bob and the couple of others who are calling me a troll are
happy that you had to scan through all the above repetition to get to my
comment, now properly bottom-posted. Aye aye, captains, I am following your
rules.

I hope now to go back to my routine of the last 15 years, checking obits
once in the morning, seeing if anyone I care about has died, and having
nothing to say, because every few years when I have something worth posting,
I remember too late that this is a cigar-smokin' men's clique club, where
nobody is welcome unless they live here all day long.

I wondered why that nice guy MWB from Boston recently left. I'm originally
from Boston so I always noticed his local obits. Now I understand why he
left.

You don't have to post a sarcastic comment saying you'll be glad I'm going
back to silent mode; I get it.

Thank you guys for hurting the feelings of someone who is NOT a troll, but
who can't just ignore nasty comments and walk away if she thinks she can
engage in a conversation that will lead to SOME understanding between
people.

The Other Diane

[Roy D'Loon]

Post by The Other Diane
Reply now properly bottom-posted wayyyyy below.

You're boring. *plonk*