Discussion:
Semi-OT: Death of landlines - and why that could mean death for owners
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Lenona
2024-02-12 22:09:23 UTC
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I heard, recently, that they could be gone in three years.

https://www.fastcompany.com/91024641/death-of-phone-landline-att-what-it-means-for-rural-areas-with-no-cell-service
(by Emily Price - it's a 3-minute read)

"Phone companies may be sick of paying for landlines that only 30% of Americans use. But for those few, it could mean life or death."

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/09/landlines-comeback-home-phones/675280/
(from September, by Ian Bogost - but there's a paywall - in my case, anyway.)

"America Gave Up on the Best Home Technology There Is: The death of the landline was premature."

https://cordcuttersnews.com/att-is-saying-goodbye-to-landline-phones-as-it-pushes-customers-to-voip-options/#:~:text=Back%20in%20August%20of%202022,and%20instead%20only%20selling%20fiber.
(with 50 comments)


More on the subject:

https://www.google.com/search?q=death+of+landlines&sca_esv=54b6785aa301342b&ei=DYfKZbLbEbSYptQP_uOCwAU&ved=0ahUKEwjyleqZ2aaEAxU0jIkEHf6xAFgQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=death+of+landlines&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiEmRlYXRoIG9mIGxhbmRsaW5lczIFECEYoAEyBRAhGJ8FSII4UABYiDVwBHgAkAEAmAGhAaABtxCqAQQxNi42uAEDyAEA-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&sclient=gws-wiz-serp
Adam H. Kerman
2024-02-12 22:54:49 UTC
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Post by Lenona
I heard, recently, that they could be gone in three years.
This is a bullshit issue.

This goes back to the breakup of AT&T in 1982 and how "competition" was
implemented. The successor Regional Bell Operating Companies (nearly all
of which merged into one massive company, so what was the point of the
breakup) were required to offer landlines at wholesale rates to
competing services that weren't in a position to build their own
neighborhood lines. New services offered by the RBOCs are not subject to
the court order requiring wholesale rates.

There's effectively competition between Darryl and this is my other
brother Darryl: ex-phone company services and whatever cable offers.
Pretty much no one else built out a local network.

Your competition is between paragons of lousy subscriber service.

It's not a technology issue nor a maintenance issue. It's how they got
out from under a court decision.
Tommie Hicks
2024-02-12 23:05:48 UTC
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I do not have cell phone signal where I live. My landline is horrible. On rainy days I cannot make a call from my house. Our phone plant was installed in 1962. My landline provider, Frontier, refuses to fix it. They tell me to terminate the account if i don't like it. In 1985 I could make calls from my rural abode 24/7. Today I cannot.

If you have a landline that works, don't take it for granted. I plan to get a Tesla phone, but it will take me a few months to save up for it.
Adam H. Kerman
2024-02-13 01:00:47 UTC
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Post by Tommie Hicks
I do not have cell phone signal where I live. My landline is horrible.
On rainy days I cannot make a call from my house. Our phone plant was
installed in 1962. My landline provider, Frontier, refuses to fix it.
They tell me to terminate the account if i don't like it. In 1985 I
could make calls from my rural abode 24/7. Today I cannot.
If you have a landline that works, don't take it for granted. I plan to
get a Tesla phone, but it will take me a few months to save up for it.
I have no idea what Tesla has to do with telephony. Is that a satellite
phone?

How are you communicating, DSL?
Tommie Hicks
2024-02-19 02:38:58 UTC
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Post by Adam H. Kerman
I have no idea what Tesla has to do with telephony. Is that a satellite
phone?
How are you communicating, DSL?
From what I understand the Tesla phone will use the Starlink infrastructure. The cheapest one is $1,000.

After begging for DSL from the phone company for two decades I gave up. In 2010 the U.S. Goverment gave the phone company $96,000 to run fiber up our road but it never materialized. My landline was so decrepit that it would not allow the operation of an internet browser. I had to use Hughesnet since about 2017. They promised 2.5 gigabytes a second and never delivered on it. The last four years or so Hughesnet was giving me 14.5 kilobytes a second, nearly 1/4 of dial up speeds for $88 a month. But I had to keep it for at least I could maintain an e-mail account and browse websites with no videos. Last October, after 2 years on a waiting list I was able to get Starlink. The difference was phenomenal. On Hughesnet I was unable to watch videos, but with Starlink I can run six tabs of youtube videos flawlessly. Hughesnet made it extremely difficult to sever with them. They made an unauthorized $700 charge on my credit card which they said was a deposit on the Lna and reciever which they had explicitly said in our contract that those items would be my property if I flawlessly maintained the account for 4 years. I just received the $700 back two weeks ago, several months after I sent them the equipment. Hughesnet would not terminate may account until they received the gear so I paid for two months of service, a month and a half after they received the equipment. Gad what a nightmare.
Louis Epstein
2024-02-19 04:32:10 UTC
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Post by Tommie Hicks
Post by Adam H. Kerman
I have no idea what Tesla has to do with telephony. Is that a satellite
phone?
How are you communicating, DSL?
From what I understand the Tesla phone will use the Starlink infrastructure. The cheapest one is $1,000.
After begging for DSL from the phone company for two decades I gave up. In
2010 the U.S. Goverment gave the phone company $96,000 to run fiber up our
road but it never materialized.
I wonder what it cost Verizon to run the 96-strand fiber cable
down my driveway of which 94 strands are still unused.
Post by Tommie Hicks
My landline was so decrepit that it would not allow the operation of an
internet browser.
Of what type?...what bandwidth connection was on your twisted pair?
Post by Tommie Hicks
I had to use Hughesnet since about 2017. They promised 2.5
gigabytes a second and never delivered on it. The last four years or so
Hughesnet was giving me 14.5 kilobytes a second, nearly 1/4 of dial up speeds
for $88 a month. But I had to keep it for at least I could maintain an
e-mail account and browse websites with no videos. Last October, after 2
years on a waiting list I was able to get Starlink. The difference was
phenomenal. On Hughesnet I was unable to watch videos, but with Starlink I
can run six tabs of youtube videos flawlessly. Hughesnet made it extremely
difficult to sever with them. They made an unauthorized $700 charge on my
credit card which they said was a deposit on the Lna and reciever which they
had explicitly said in our contract that those items would be my property if
I flawlessly maintained the account for 4 years. I just received the $700
back two weeks ago, several months after I sent them the equipment.
Hughesnet would not terminate may account until they received the gear so I
paid for two months of service, a month and a half after they received the
equipment. Gad what a nightmare.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

David Carson
2024-02-13 14:16:22 UTC
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On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 15:05:48 -0800 (PST), Tommie Hicks
Post by Tommie Hicks
I do not have cell phone signal where I live. My landline is horrible. On rainy days I cannot make a call from my house. Our phone plant was installed in 1962. My landline provider, Frontier, refuses to fix it. They tell me to terminate the account if i don't like it. In 1985 I could make calls from my rural abode 24/7. Today I cannot.
If you have a landline that works, don't take it for granted. I plan to get a Tesla phone, but it will take me a few months to save up for it.
I kept my landline way longer than most people did. The main thing I used
it for was to locate my cell phone. It was also the number I gave out to
all the stores that identify customers by their phone number. But it kept
going out of service every couple of months. If it had worked, I would
have kept it to this day. I'm sure it didn't bother the phone company when
I cancelled it.

I don't think anyone is going to die because their landline that hardly
ever works anyway gets disconnected.

David Carson
--
Dead or Alive Data Base
http://www.doadb.com
Lenona
2024-02-13 16:13:50 UTC
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Post by David Carson
I don't think anyone is going to die because their landline that hardly
ever works anyway gets disconnected.
Funny, MY experience is that a landline is far more reliable when you want someone to HEAR you properly.

If *I* can't hear someone, the other person almost always was using a cell phone.
Kenny McCormack
2024-02-13 16:52:48 UTC
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Post by Lenona
Post by David Carson
I don't think anyone is going to die because their landline that hardly
ever works anyway gets disconnected.
Funny, MY experience is that a landline is far more reliable when you want
someone to HEAR you properly.
If *I* can't hear someone, the other person almost always was using a cell phone.
This.

Cell phones are notoriously unreliable. (*)
Note: Maybe they work OK in large metro urban areas, but in the semi-rural
areas in which I live and spend my time, nuh uh.

*Real* landlines - actual Western Electric equipment - are unbearably reliable.

VOIP landlines (like I have) are pretty damn reliable, as long as your
Internet service is up.

Cell phones - amazing they work at all.

(*) I actually put this (this = the idea that cell phones are solid and
reliable and always work) in the "things you see on movies or TV that
aren't true in real life, but many people believe they are" category.
--
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4
lines long. As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs. In order to remain
in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/TedCruz
Louis Epstein
2024-02-16 03:08:00 UTC
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Post by Kenny McCormack
Post by Lenona
Post by David Carson
I don't think anyone is going to die because their landline that hardly
ever works anyway gets disconnected.
Funny, MY experience is that a landline is far more reliable when you want
someone to HEAR you properly.
If *I* can't hear someone, the other person almost always was using a cell phone.
This.
Cell phones are notoriously unreliable. (*)
Note: Maybe they work OK in large metro urban areas, but in the semi-rural
areas in which I live and spend my time, nuh uh.
*Real* landlines - actual Western Electric equipment - are unbearably reliable.
VOIP landlines (like I have) are pretty damn reliable, as long as your
Internet service is up.
Right now my landlines are fiber but not VOIP.

It's my understanding that fiber voice can be really really good
but it doesn't have to be and the utilities don't really care
if it is.
Post by Kenny McCormack
Cell phones - amazing they work at all.
(*) I actually put this (this = the idea that cell phones are solid and
reliable and always work) in the "things you see on movies or TV that
aren't true in real life, but many people believe they are" category.
Those who want cell towers and WiFi to proliferate everywhere are
taking away the freedom to be beyond their reach.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Big Mongo
2024-02-16 21:58:34 UTC
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Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Kenny McCormack
Post by Lenona
Post by David Carson
I don't think anyone is going to die because their landline that hardly
ever works anyway gets disconnected.
Funny, MY experience is that a landline is far more reliable when you want
someone to HEAR you properly.
If *I* can't hear someone, the other person almost always was using a cell phone.
This.
Cell phones are notoriously unreliable. (*)
Note: Maybe they work OK in large metro urban areas, but in the semi-rural
areas in which I live and spend my time, nuh uh.
*Real* landlines - actual Western Electric equipment - are unbearably reliable.
VOIP landlines (like I have) are pretty damn reliable, as long as your
Internet service is up.
Right now my landlines are fiber but not VOIP.
It's my understanding that fiber voice can be really really good
but it doesn't have to be and the utilities don't really care
if it is.
Post by Kenny McCormack
Cell phones - amazing they work at all.
(*) I actually put this (this = the idea that cell phones are solid and
reliable and always work) in the "things you see on movies or TV that
aren't true in real life, but many people believe they are" category.
Those who want cell towers and WiFi to proliferate everywhere are
taking away the freedom to be beyond their reach.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Think of all the copper wire they'll reclaim!!!! It's at $3.71 a pound today
at the close of business...
Louis Epstein
2024-02-13 06:55:54 UTC
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Post by Lenona
I heard, recently, that they could be gone in three years.
https://www.fastcompany.com/91024641/death-of-phone-landline-att-what-it-means-for-rural-areas-with-no-cell-service
(by Emily Price - it's a 3-minute read)
"Phone companies may be sick of paying for landlines that only 30% of
Americans use. But for those few, it could mean life or death."
I've never understood why people don't jealously guard whatever
cellphone numbers they may have for intimates only and insist
on only landlines as their publicly-revealed telephones.

My cellphone plan is expired and I haven't bothered reinstating
service for the bills I've been paying because having a phone
aside from the landline number that's been in the family my
entire life simply isn't a priority for me.
Post by Lenona
https://cordcuttersnews.com/att-is-saying-goodbye-to-landline-phones-as-it-pushes-customers-to-voip-options/#:~:text=Back%20in%20August%20of%202022,and%20instead%20only%20selling%20fiber.
(with 50 comments)
I'm a shareholder,but phooey on this.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Kenny McCormack
2024-02-13 11:36:56 UTC
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Post by Lenona
I heard, recently, that they could be gone in three years.
https://www.fastcompany.com/91024641/death-of-phone-landline-att-what-it-means-for-rural-areas-with-no-cell-service
(by Emily Price - it's a 3-minute read)
"Phone companies may be sick of paying for landlines that only 30% of Americans
use. But for those few, it could mean life or death."
There is a simple solution to this, but it is unlikely to ever happen. We
don't seem to have the appetite nowdays for actually fixing anything.

The solution is to replace all the existing phone line infrastructure with
Internet infrastructure, so that everybody has Internet (good, reliable,
Internet, not the sort of fly-by-night stuff we have now). Then everybody
has phone service and everything else that the Internet provides (which is
becoming increasing essential to modern life).

I have also thought that they should replace all the AM/FM (and, for that
matter any other) radio bands with Internet service. There's really
nothing that you can do via radio that isn't really just a subset of what
you can with IP service. As it happens, I do listen to FM radio in my car
a lot, but I always think: Wouldn't it be better if I could get IP service
instead?

Anyway, of course, none of this will happen until someone figures out a way
for the donor class to make a buck off of it.
--
Treating the stock market indexes as general measures of the well-being of a
society is like treating your blood pressure as an indicator of health. The
higher, the better, right? In fact, a high stock market is good for the investor
class, but it means the rest of us are getting screwed better than ever.
Louis Epstein
2024-02-16 03:05:28 UTC
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Post by Kenny McCormack
Post by Lenona
I heard, recently, that they could be gone in three years.
https://www.fastcompany.com/91024641/death-of-phone-landline-att-what-it-means-for-rural-areas-with-no-cell-service
(by Emily Price - it's a 3-minute read)
"Phone companies may be sick of paying for landlines that only 30% of Americans
use. But for those few, it could mean life or death."
There is a simple solution to this, but it is unlikely to ever happen. We
don't seem to have the appetite nowdays for actually fixing anything.
The solution is to replace all the existing phone line infrastructure with
Internet infrastructure, so that everybody has Internet (good, reliable,
Internet, not the sort of fly-by-night stuff we have now). Then everybody
has phone service and everything else that the Internet provides (which is
becoming increasing essential to modern life).
I believe that the freedom to NOT be reachable by Internet
is absolutely essential and should not be threatened further.

If you can't find a way to be off the grid,you're in the Matrix.
Post by Kenny McCormack
I have also thought that they should replace all the AM/FM (and, for that
matter any other) radio bands with Internet service. There's really
nothing that you can do via radio that isn't really just a subset of what
you can with IP service. As it happens, I do listen to FM radio in my car
a lot, but I always think: Wouldn't it be better if I could get IP service
instead?
FARADAY CAGES FOR ALL!!!


-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
John M.
2024-02-18 17:44:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 03:05:28 -0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Kenny McCormack
Post by Lenona
I heard, recently, that they could be gone in three years.
https://www.fastcompany.com/91024641/death-of-phone-landline-att-what-it-means-for-rural-areas-with-no-cell-service
(by Emily Price - it's a 3-minute read)
"Phone companies may be sick of paying for landlines that only 30% of Americans
use. But for those few, it could mean life or death."
There is a simple solution to this, but it is unlikely to ever happen. We
don't seem to have the appetite nowdays for actually fixing anything.
The solution is to replace all the existing phone line infrastructure with
Internet infrastructure, so that everybody has Internet (good, reliable,
Internet, not the sort of fly-by-night stuff we have now). Then everybody
has phone service and everything else that the Internet provides (which is
becoming increasing essential to modern life).
I believe that the freedom to NOT be reachable by Internet
is absolutely essential and should not be threatened further.
If you can't find a way to be off the grid,you're in the Matrix.
But if you want to learn how to be off grid there are, of course,
books. But, it's so easy to learn from Youtube.
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