Discussion:
Alive and Well !!! C. Rice as Bush's Token Oreo.
(too old to reply)
f***@nomail.com
2004-04-08 18:31:04 UTC
Permalink
Bout the only thing she didn't do was say,

Yassir, Bush good Massa.

$50 bucks to the person who convinces her to see a dentist.

She could shread mulch with them teeth.
doc
2004-04-08 18:40:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@nomail.com
She could shread mulch with them teeth.
Now, there's no need to get personal. She is an articulate, erudite
and winsome, comely woman. However, the damnation of her career was
the fact of that Aug. 6th briefing to the President. She may be
wrong-headed, but she is not ugly or stupid.

Besides. the "Uncle Tom" label is more appropriately applied to Gen.
Powell. Rice has demonstrated consistently that she is an independent
ideologue of great intellectual skill. The fact that she is pointed
in the wrong direction does not negate her abilities. She is NOT in
the same venal, opportunistic league with Powell, who has to be given
credit for elevating the military game of CYA to an art form.

He can out-Haig the old master himself.
theresa
2004-04-08 19:17:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by doc
Post by f***@nomail.com
She could shread mulch with them teeth.
Now, there's no need to get personal. She is an articulate, erudite
and winsome, comely woman. However, the damnation of her career was
the fact of that Aug. 6th briefing to the President. She may be
wrong-headed, but she is not ugly or stupid.
Besides. the "Uncle Tom" label is more appropriately applied to Gen.
Powell. Rice has demonstrated consistently that she is an independent
ideologue of great intellectual skill. The fact that she is pointed
in the wrong direction does not negate her abilities. She is NOT in
the same venal, opportunistic league with Powell, who has to be given
credit for elevating the military game of CYA to an art form.
He can out-Haig the old master himself.
But Powell isn't "African-American". His people came over from
(Jamacia?) in the (50s?). If anything, he has brought to us the classic
Brit CYA art form.
doc
2004-04-08 19:44:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by theresa
But Powell isn't "African-American". His people came over from
(Jamacia?) in the (50s?). If anything, he has brought to us the classic
Brit CYA art form.
Your point is well-taken.
David Langlois --- Ball serves Baal
2004-04-08 20:18:28 UTC
Permalink
You're dead-on about Powell, doc!


David
Terrymelin
2004-04-08 18:51:34 UTC
Permalink
Talk about offensive. People like you should be strung up. Preferably from the
nearest tree.

Terry Ellsworth
James Neibaur
2004-04-09 01:59:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terrymelin
Talk about offensive.
I am one who generally disagrees with President Bush, but I thought
Condoleeza Rice presented herself and her argument very effectively. She
seemed like a real class act to me, and I was quite impressed.

JN
Hyfler/Rosner
2004-04-09 02:21:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Neibaur
I am one who generally disagrees with President Bush, but
I thought
Post by James Neibaur
Condoleeza Rice presented herself and her argument very
effectively. She
Post by James Neibaur
seemed like a real class act to me, and I was quite
impressed.
Post by James Neibaur
JN
I thought she was lying through her teeth. Smirk and all.
That's her shtick, looking brilliant and smirking her way
through the deceit.

She's the National...Security...Advisor. She knew all the
facts. She ignored all the facts. She didn't tell anyone
who needed to know that they might be in danger (you know,
like the Airlines, or the Department of Transportation)

She was asleep at the wheel before 9/11. She was asleep at
the wheel on the day of 9/11. (Has everyone forgotten that
our DEFENSE Department was attacked a nice long while after
the WTC?) And whether it was her idea or Cheney's or Rummy's
or Papa Bush's idea to target Iraq instead of the real
perps, she let that swell idea go forward. With a
vengeance.

As one of the 9/11 widows said, either she's lying or she's
incompetent. In either case, she should be fired.

I don't think she's brilliant. She's just another one of
the bad guys.
mwitthoft
2004-04-09 02:47:55 UTC
Permalink
Hyfler/Rosner wrote:
...
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
I thought she was lying through her teeth. Smirk and all.
That's her shtick, looking brilliant and smirking her way
through the deceit.
...
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
I don't think she's brilliant. She's just another one of
the bad guys.
She's always reminded me of Ron Ziegler more than anyone else. She can
rattle off content-free content with remarkable and nauseating skill.
Erik L.
2004-04-09 02:53:52 UTC
Permalink
The demoncrats hate Rice because she is a black female republican. The dopey
left thinks all blacks and all women should walk in lock step behind them.




Hanoi Jane and Hanoi John......Perfect Together

Erik L.
f***@nomail.com
2004-04-09 03:34:33 UTC
Permalink
How can you people sit here and absorb so much BULLSHIT from George
Bush and his band of Hitlerist maggots.

The only thing he hasn't done is start putting massive groups of
citizens in Camps. He still has the summer.

When this country goes into the giant shitter, I hope all of you sit
there with your heads up your asses and say,

Gee, we should have listened to that guy......

May you all suffer Holocaust the Sequel.
Erik L.
2004-04-09 03:45:30 UTC
Permalink
Why don't you have the guts to use a real name? Chicken shit coward.


Hanoi Jane and Hanoi John......Perfect Together

Erik L.
MWB
2004-04-09 20:49:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@nomail.com
The only thing he hasn't done is start putting massive groups of
citizens in Camps. He still has the summer.
I love camping.

Mark
James Neibaur
2004-04-09 04:11:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Erik L.
The dopey
left thinks all blacks and all women should walk in lock step behind them.
That isn't true, Erik.

JN
Erik L.
2004-04-09 11:00:19 UTC
Permalink
From: James Neibaur
That isn't true, Erik.
I said the dopey left, Jim. I do not consider you a dope.


Hanoi Jane and Hanoi John......Perfect Together

Erik L.
Bogart
2004-04-09 03:44:40 UTC
Permalink
(Has everyone forgotten that our DEFENSE Department was attacked a
nice long while after the WTC?)
8:46 - North Tower hit by Flight 11
9:00 - Pentagon moves from Normal to alert status - Alpha, later to
Charlie.
9:03 - South Tower hit by Flight 175
9:33 - First pass over Pentagon by Flight 77
9:38 - Flight 77 crashes into Pentagon.

Do you really think give or take 38 minutes is a " nice long time" ?
April Cool
2004-04-09 10:38:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bogart
(Has everyone forgotten that our DEFENSE Department was attacked a
nice long while after the WTC?)
8:46 - North Tower hit by Flight 11
9:00 - Pentagon moves from Normal to alert status - Alpha, later to
Charlie.
9:03 - South Tower hit by Flight 175
9:33 - First pass over Pentagon by Flight 77
9:38 - Flight 77 crashes into Pentagon.
Do you really think give or take 38 minutes is a " nice long time" ?
Plenty.
Bogart
2004-04-09 16:01:15 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 06:38:21 -0400, April Cool
Post by April Cool
Post by Bogart
(Has everyone forgotten that our DEFENSE Department was attacked a
nice long while after the WTC?)
8:46 - North Tower hit by Flight 11
9:00 - Pentagon moves from Normal to alert status - Alpha, later to
Charlie.
9:03 - South Tower hit by Flight 175
9:33 - First pass over Pentagon by Flight 77
9:38 - Flight 77 crashes into Pentagon.
Do you really think give or take 38 minutes is a " nice long time" ?
Plenty.
Ok, what could the Pentagon have done within the 38 minutes?

And lets not be hindsight quarterbacks. Give me a logical response of
what you think could have done with the assets at hand on 9/11/01.

Thanks.
danny burstein
2004-04-09 16:31:14 UTC
Permalink
In <***@news.teranews.com> Bogart <***@NoSPam.net> writes:

[ big snip ]
Post by Bogart
Ok, what could the Pentagon have done within the 38 minutes?
And lets not be hindsight quarterbacks. Give me a logical response of
what you think could have done with the assets at hand on 9/11/01.
Seriously? Sure. If the earlier alerts had been followed up, then as soon
as the first plane was hijacked there'd have been a military jet alongside
it. And then when the others lost contact [a] they, too, would have had
an immediate escort [b].

Shooting down a passneger plane is clearly not an easy decision, so it's
certainly possible that the first WTC plane would have still hit its
target, but the other three would have been stopped, one way or another.

[a] and it's quite possible that if a warning had gotten out to these
other aircraft, that they'd never have been taken over.

[b] maybe not always an armed military flight, but certainly one where, so
to speak, we would take care of the crews' families afterwards.
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
The Kentucky Wizard
2004-04-09 22:00:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
[ big snip ]
Post by Bogart
Ok, what could the Pentagon have done within the 38 minutes?
And lets not be hindsight quarterbacks. Give me a logical
response of
Post by danny burstein
Post by Bogart
what you think could have done with the assets at hand on
9/11/01.
Post by danny burstein
Seriously? Sure. If the earlier alerts had been followed up,
then as soon
Post by danny burstein
as the first plane was hijacked there'd have been a military
jet alongside
Post by danny burstein
it. And then when the others lost contact [a] they, too, would
have had
Post by danny burstein
an immediate escort [b].
And, then what? Having an escort wouldn't have changed things.
Since a plane had never been used as a missile before, only the
highjackers knew their intentions. It was believed to be a
"typical" highjacking, which unfortunately had occurred on more
than one occasion.
Post by danny burstein
Shooting down a passneger plane is clearly not an easy
decision, so it's
Post by danny burstein
certainly possible that the first WTC plane would have still
hit its
Post by danny burstein
target, but the other three would have been stopped, one way
or another.

Shooting down a passenger airplane is really not an option,
unless you want to kill more than those in the plane. The routes
these particular planes took was over several densely populated
areas in the northeastern US, and the chances that there would
have been a large number of people killed on the ground would
have been great, most likely not equal to the number that did
die that day, but still a large number would have been a
probability. Now, if a hijacked airplane happens to be over a
dry lake bed someone in the Western US, then shooting it down
could be something to consider, but I doubt that we would want
to start a precedent of shooting down airplanes on the
possibility that they may be used as missiles.
Post by danny burstein
[a] and it's quite possible that if a warning had gotten out
to these
Post by danny burstein
other aircraft, that they'd never have been taken over.
Unfortunately, air traffic communications just don't work that
way. Even if there had been "the word" given out that planes
were being hijacked, then what could someone do about it? Having
stewardesses or co-pilots perform strip searches on every
person, on every airplane that is airborne in the US, is most
unfeasible. The hijackers really didn't have the element of
surprise on their side, but they did have weapons, and with the
exception of the passengers in the downed plane in Pennsylvania,
who already knew what had happened to the first two planes, and
took action to stop their plane from being the next to go
head-on into something, no one else in the other planes dared to
take them on, no doubt believing they were just going to go to
somewhere like Cuba, or land somewhere until their demands are
met, which is what usually occurred in previous highjackings.
Post by danny burstein
[b] maybe not always an armed military flight, but certainly
one where, so
Post by danny burstein
to speak, we would take care of the crews' families
afterwards.

You'll have to explain this one, Danny 'ole pal, it doesn't make
sense to me, but it may to everyone else.
--
© The Wiz ®
«¤»¥«¤»¥«¤»
Jeff George
2004-04-12 18:43:34 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 22:00:27 GMT, "The Kentucky Wizard"
Post by Bogart
Post by danny burstein
[ big snip ]
Post by Bogart
Ok, what could the Pentagon have done within the 38 minutes?
And lets not be hindsight quarterbacks. Give me a logical
response of
Post by danny burstein
Post by Bogart
what you think could have done with the assets at hand on
9/11/01.
Post by danny burstein
Seriously? Sure. If the earlier alerts had been followed up,
then as soon
Post by danny burstein
as the first plane was hijacked there'd have been a military
jet alongside
Post by danny burstein
it. And then when the others lost contact [a] they, too, would
have had
Post by danny burstein
an immediate escort [b].
And, then what? Having an escort wouldn't have changed things.
Since a plane had never been used as a missile before, only the
highjackers knew their intentions. It was believed to be a
"typical" highjacking, which unfortunately had occurred on more
than one occasion.
Except that the Bushies had been warned of just such a use of aircraft
before.
Post by Bogart
Post by danny burstein
Shooting down a passneger plane is clearly not an easy
decision, so it's
Post by danny burstein
certainly possible that the first WTC plane would have still
hit its
Post by danny burstein
target, but the other three would have been stopped, one way
or another.
Shooting down a passenger airplane is really not an option,
of course it is, if you know the intent of the hijackers.
Post by Bogart
unless you want to kill more than those in the plane.
You have to weigh all the options.




Jeff George
SLAP (Socialist Liberation Army of the People)
SLUG (Socialists for Liberty United Government)


Power to the People! Vive la revolution!
Viva La Revolucion!
Harry Krause
2004-04-09 16:32:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bogart
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 06:38:21 -0400, April Cool
Post by April Cool
Post by Bogart
(Has everyone forgotten that our DEFENSE Department was attacked a
nice long while after the WTC?)
8:46 - North Tower hit by Flight 11
9:00 - Pentagon moves from Normal to alert status - Alpha, later to
Charlie.
9:03 - South Tower hit by Flight 175
9:33 - First pass over Pentagon by Flight 77
9:38 - Flight 77 crashes into Pentagon.
Do you really think give or take 38 minutes is a " nice long time" ?
Plenty.
Ok, what could the Pentagon have done within the 38 minutes?
And lets not be hindsight quarterbacks. Give me a logical response of
what you think could have done with the assets at hand on 9/11/01.
Thanks.
We couldn't do anything with the assets on hand now to prevent another
massive terrorist attack on this country. The Bush Plan is nothing more
than bullshit aimed at placating a comatose public.
Bogart
2004-04-09 17:38:33 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:32:30 -0400, Harry Krause
Post by Harry Krause
Post by Bogart
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 06:38:21 -0400, April Cool
Post by April Cool
Post by Bogart
(Has everyone forgotten that our DEFENSE Department was attacked a
nice long while after the WTC?)
8:46 - North Tower hit by Flight 11
9:00 - Pentagon moves from Normal to alert status - Alpha, later to
Charlie.
9:03 - South Tower hit by Flight 175
9:33 - First pass over Pentagon by Flight 77
9:38 - Flight 77 crashes into Pentagon.
Do you really think give or take 38 minutes is a " nice long time" ?
Plenty.
Ok, what could the Pentagon have done within the 38 minutes?
And lets not be hindsight quarterbacks. Give me a logical response of
what you think could have done with the assets at hand on 9/11/01.
Thanks.
We couldn't do anything with the assets on hand now to prevent another
massive terrorist attack on this country.
That's the exact opposite to what the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks
has declared.

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20040330-120655-9785r.htm


Chicago, L.A. towers were next targets
By Paul Martin

THE WASHINGTON TIMES


LONDON — Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, al Qaeda's purported operations
chief, has told U.S. interrogators that the group had been planning
attacks on the Library Tower in Los Angeles and the Sears Tower in
Chicago on the heels of the September 11, 2001, terror strikes.
Those plans were aborted mainly because of the decisive U.S.
response to the New York and Washington attacks, which disrupted the
terrorist organization's plans so thoroughly that it could not
proceed, according to transcripts of his conversations with
interrogators.

<snip>

The new transcripts confirm an earlier report by the Associated
Press that al Qaeda originally had planned to crash hijacked airliners
into targets on both coasts.
The London Sunday Times said the transcripts covered
interrogations conducted during a period of four months after a
bleary-eyed Mohammed was captured in a pre-dawn raid a little more
than a year ago.
The confessions reveal that planning for the September 11 attacks
started much earlier and was more elaborate than previously thought.
"The original plan was for a two-pronged attack with five targets
on the East Coast of America and five on the West Coast," he told
interrogators, according to the transcript.
"We talked about hitting California as it was America's richest
state, and [al Qaeda leader Osama] bin Laden had talked about economic
targets."
He is reported to have said that bin Laden, who like Mohammed had
studied engineering, vetoed simultaneous coast-to-coast attacks,
arguing that "it would be too difficult to synchronize."
Mohammed then decided to conduct two waves of attacks, hitting the
East Coast first and following up with a second series of attacks.
"Osama had said the second wave should focus on the West Coast,"
he reportedly said.
But the terrorists seem to have been surprised by the strength of
the American reaction to the September 11 attacks.
"Afterwards, we never got time to catch our breath, we were
immediately on the run," Mohammed is quoted as saying.
Al Qaeda's communications network was severely disrupted, he said.
Operatives could no longer use satellite phones and had to rely on
couriers, although they continued to use Internet chat rooms.
"Before September 11, we could dispatch operatives with the
expectation of follow-up contact, but after October 7 [when U.S.
bombing started in Afghanistan], that changed 180 degrees. There was
no longer a war room ... and operatives had more autonomy."
Mohammed told interrogators that he remained in Pakistan for 10
days after September 11, 2001, then went to Afghanistan to find bin
Laden.
When he was captured in March last year in the home of a
microbiologist in Rawalpindi, Pakistan, the 37-year-old was unshaven
and wearing a baggy vest.
The interrogation reports also indicate that Mohammed had
introduced bin Laden to Hambali, the Indonesian militant accused in
the terror attack that killed more than 200 people in Bali, Indonesia,
in October 2002.
Mohammed was running a hostel filtering al Qaeda recruits in
Peshawar, Pakistan, when he scouted Hambali, whose real name is Riduan
Ismuddin and who ran the Islamist group Jemaah Islamiyah in Asia.
Later, Mohammed moved to Karachi, Pakistan. There, posing as a
businessman importing holy water from Mecca, Saudi Arabia, he acted as
a fund-raiser and intermediary between militants and sponsors in the
Gulf.
His first planned anti-American attack was Operation Bojinka
(Serbo-Croatian for "big bang") — a plot to blow up 12 U.S. airliners
over the Pacific.
Yousuf and Hambali were involved in the scheme, which failed when
the conspirators' Manila bomb factory caught fire. The men fled to
Pakistan, where Yousuf was arrested.

---
Post by Harry Krause
The Bush Plan is nothing more than bullshit aimed at placating a comatose
public.
How many other 9/11 type operations have we had in the United States
since 9/11?
Jeff George
2004-04-12 18:50:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bogart
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:32:30 -0400, Harry Krause
Post by Harry Krause
The Bush Plan is nothing more than bullshit aimed at placating a comatose
public.
How many other 9/11 type operations have we had in the United States
since 9/11?
How many did we have before 11-Sep-01?

Jeff George
SLAP (Socialist Liberation Army of the People)
SLUG (Socialists for Liberty United Government)


Power to the People! Vive la revolution!
Viva La Revolucion!
Bogart
2004-04-12 22:54:43 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:50:22 -0400, Jeff George
Post by Jeff George
Post by Bogart
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:32:30 -0400, Harry Krause
Post by Harry Krause
The Bush Plan is nothing more than bullshit aimed at placating a comatose
public.
How many other 9/11 type operations have we had in the United States
since 9/11?
How many did we have before 11-Sep-01?
One. WTC in 1993. The bomb was not powerful enough to do what they
wanted it to do and it wasn't placed in the right location.

Why am I constantly educating you? :)
Post by Jeff George
Jeff George
SLAP (Socialist Liberation Army of the People)
SLUG (Socialists for Liberty United Government)
Power to the People! Vive la revolution!
Viva La Revolucion!
----

" On the far side of the earth
You were our walls, steel and flesh.
Against the barbarisms of our century.
Dedicated to all those who serve,
Especially those who serve in what we call peace
--- though it isn't.
But especially to those sailors, officers, and marines
--- and their families ---
Who served through the long cruises
The liberties
And sometimes, the actions
Of the Sixth Fleet.
For all those who made the last
sacrifice for what they believed was right.
We sent you to keep the peace for us.
Some of you never came back."
Jeff George
2004-04-13 00:59:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bogart
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:50:22 -0400, Jeff George
Post by Jeff George
Post by Bogart
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:32:30 -0400, Harry Krause
Post by Harry Krause
The Bush Plan is nothing more than bullshit aimed at placating a comatose
public.
How many other 9/11 type operations have we had in the United States
since 9/11?
How many did we have before 11-Sep-01?
One. WTC in 1993. The bomb was not powerful enough to do what they
wanted it to do and it wasn't placed in the right location.
That is correct, the point being that it means absolutely nothing that
there have been no major terrorist attacks since 11-Sep-01, as there
weren't many beforehand. Therefore, it doesn't prove that the current
administration has achieved anything.

Regards,
Jeff George

SLAP (Socialist Liberation Army of the People)
SLUG (Socialists for Liberty United Government)

Power to the People!

Redistribution of Wealth!
Bogart
2004-04-13 02:50:48 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:59:43 -0400, Jeff George
Post by Jeff George
Post by Bogart
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:50:22 -0400, Jeff George
Post by Jeff George
Post by Bogart
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:32:30 -0400, Harry Krause
Post by Harry Krause
The Bush Plan is nothing more than bullshit aimed at placating a comatose
public.
How many other 9/11 type operations have we had in the United States
since 9/11?
How many did we have before 11-Sep-01?
One. WTC in 1993. The bomb was not powerful enough to do what they
wanted it to do and it wasn't placed in the right location.
That is correct, the point being that it means absolutely nothing that
there have been no major terrorist attacks since 11-Sep-01, as there
weren't many beforehand.
You can't make that conclusion. There were terrorist attacks on US
installations as well as the USS Cole prior to 9/11.
Post by Jeff George
Therefore, it doesn't prove that the current
administration has achieved anything.
Does the Taliban exist today? :)
Post by Jeff George
Regards,
Jeff George
SLAP (Socialist Liberation Army of the People)
SLUG (Socialists for Liberty United Government)
Power to the People!
Redistribution of Wealth!
----

" On the far side of the earth
You were our walls, steel and flesh.
Against the barbarisms of our century.
Dedicated to all those who serve,
Especially those who serve in what we call peace
--- though it isn't.
But especially to those sailors, officers, and marines
--- and their families ---
Who served through the long cruises
The liberties
And sometimes, the actions
Of the Sixth Fleet.
For all those who made the last
sacrifice for what they believed was right.
We sent you to keep the peace for us.
Some of you never came back."
Loki
2004-04-13 03:01:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bogart
Post by Jeff George
Post by Bogart
Post by Jeff George
How many did we have before 11-Sep-01?
One. WTC in 1993. The bomb was not powerful enough to do what they
wanted it to do and it wasn't placed in the right location.
That is correct, the point being that it means absolutely nothing that
there have been no major terrorist attacks since 11-Sep-01, as there
weren't many beforehand.
You can't make that conclusion. There were terrorist attacks on US
installations as well as the USS Cole prior to 9/11.
Since you brought up the USS Cole, maybe you can explain why W never
did anything about it....


Loki
Bogart
2004-04-13 03:04:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Loki
Post by Bogart
Post by Jeff George
Post by Bogart
Post by Jeff George
How many did we have before 11-Sep-01?
One. WTC in 1993. The bomb was not powerful enough to do what they
wanted it to do and it wasn't placed in the right location.
That is correct, the point being that it means absolutely nothing that
there have been no major terrorist attacks since 11-Sep-01, as there
weren't many beforehand.
You can't make that conclusion. There were terrorist attacks on US
installations as well as the USS Cole prior to 9/11.
Since you brought up the USS Cole, maybe you can explain why W never
did anything about it....
Why? Are you under the impression I'm either a Bush supporter,
apologist, Republican, right winger... as opposed to someone providing
factual information with cites to the discussion?

Kindly show me where you get any indication as to my political
leanings or official affiliations beyond your apparently preconceived
ideas. :)
Post by Loki
Loki
----

" On the far side of the earth
You were our walls, steel and flesh.
Against the barbarisms of our century.
Dedicated to all those who serve,
Especially those who serve in what we call peace
--- though it isn't.
But especially to those sailors, officers, and marines
--- and their families ---
Who served through the long cruises
The liberties
And sometimes, the actions
Of the Sixth Fleet.
For all those who made the last
sacrifice for what they believed was right.
We sent you to keep the peace for us.
Some of you never came back."
Loki
2004-04-13 03:53:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bogart
Post by Loki
Post by Bogart
Post by Jeff George
Post by Bogart
Post by Jeff George
How many did we have before 11-Sep-01?
One. WTC in 1993. The bomb was not powerful enough to do what they
wanted it to do and it wasn't placed in the right location.
That is correct, the point being that it means absolutely nothing that
there have been no major terrorist attacks since 11-Sep-01, as there
weren't many beforehand.
You can't make that conclusion. There were terrorist attacks on US
installations as well as the USS Cole prior to 9/11.
Since you brought up the USS Cole, maybe you can explain why W never
did anything about it....
Why? Are you under the impression I'm either a Bush supporter,
apologist, Republican, right winger... as opposed to someone providing
factual information with cites to the discussion?
Kindly show me where you get any indication as to my political
leanings or official affiliations beyond your apparently preconceived
ideas. :)
I never made any such allegations. You brought up the Cole in a
conversation relating to W and it was a natural progression in the
conversation.


Loki
Bogart
2004-04-13 04:21:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Loki
Post by Bogart
Post by Loki
Post by Bogart
Post by Jeff George
Post by Bogart
Post by Jeff George
How many did we have before 11-Sep-01?
One. WTC in 1993. The bomb was not powerful enough to do what they
wanted it to do and it wasn't placed in the right location.
That is correct, the point being that it means absolutely nothing that
there have been no major terrorist attacks since 11-Sep-01, as there
weren't many beforehand.
You can't make that conclusion. There were terrorist attacks on US
installations as well as the USS Cole prior to 9/11.
Since you brought up the USS Cole, maybe you can explain why W never
did anything about it....
Why? Are you under the impression I'm either a Bush supporter,
apologist, Republican, right winger... as opposed to someone providing
factual information with cites to the discussion?
Kindly show me where you get any indication as to my political
leanings or official affiliations beyond your apparently preconceived
ideas. :)
I never made any such allegations. You brought up the Cole in a
conversation relating to W and it was a natural progression in the
conversation.
Look again. I've made several comments in the thread and I have never
mentioned W nor have I alluded to him or any Administration. It's
your preconceived perception.
Post by Loki
Loki
----

" On the far side of the earth
You were our walls, steel and flesh.
Against the barbarisms of our century.
Dedicated to all those who serve,
Especially those who serve in what we call peace
--- though it isn't.
But especially to those sailors, officers, and marines
--- and their families ---
Who served through the long cruises
The liberties
And sometimes, the actions
Of the Sixth Fleet.
For all those who made the last
sacrifice for what they believed was right.
We sent you to keep the peace for us.
Some of you never came back."
Loki
2004-04-13 11:21:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bogart
Post by Loki
Post by Bogart
Post by Loki
Post by Bogart
Post by Jeff George
Post by Bogart
Post by Jeff George
How many did we have before 11-Sep-01?
One. WTC in 1993. The bomb was not powerful enough to do what they
wanted it to do and it wasn't placed in the right location.
That is correct, the point being that it means absolutely nothing that
there have been no major terrorist attacks since 11-Sep-01, as there
weren't many beforehand.
You can't make that conclusion. There were terrorist attacks on US
installations as well as the USS Cole prior to 9/11.
Since you brought up the USS Cole, maybe you can explain why W never
did anything about it....
Why? Are you under the impression I'm either a Bush supporter,
apologist, Republican, right winger... as opposed to someone providing
factual information with cites to the discussion?
Kindly show me where you get any indication as to my political
leanings or official affiliations beyond your apparently preconceived
ideas. :)
I never made any such allegations. You brought up the Cole in a
conversation relating to W and it was a natural progression in the
conversation.
Look again. I've made several comments in the thread and I have never
mentioned W nor have I alluded to him or any Administration. It's
your preconceived perception.
You brought up the Cole. You did so in a conversation relating to
terrorism and responding to it.

The question was a natural progression. Look, if you don't want to
talk about the Cole, it is pretty simple really. Don't bring it up.


Loki
Bogart
2004-04-13 15:44:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Loki
Post by Bogart
Post by Loki
Post by Bogart
Post by Loki
Post by Bogart
Post by Jeff George
Post by Bogart
Post by Jeff George
How many did we have before 11-Sep-01?
One. WTC in 1993. The bomb was not powerful enough to do what they
wanted it to do and it wasn't placed in the right location.
That is correct, the point being that it means absolutely nothing that
there have been no major terrorist attacks since 11-Sep-01, as there
weren't many beforehand.
You can't make that conclusion. There were terrorist attacks on US
installations as well as the USS Cole prior to 9/11.
Since you brought up the USS Cole, maybe you can explain why W never
did anything about it....
Why? Are you under the impression I'm either a Bush supporter,
apologist, Republican, right winger... as opposed to someone providing
factual information with cites to the discussion?
Kindly show me where you get any indication as to my political
leanings or official affiliations beyond your apparently preconceived
ideas. :)
I never made any such allegations. You brought up the Cole in a
conversation relating to W and it was a natural progression in the
conversation.
Look again. I've made several comments in the thread and I have never
mentioned W nor have I alluded to him or any Administration. It's
your preconceived perception.
You brought up the Cole. You did so in a conversation relating to
terrorism and responding to it.
The question was a natural progression. Look, if you don't want to
talk about the Cole, it is pretty simple really. Don't bring it up.
The Cole was one example of terrorist attacks against US interests
prior to 9/11/01.

You jumped in assuming I'm either a Bush supporter, apologist,
Republican, or right winger, etc.. and phrased your question
accordingly. You've embarrassed yourself in the process. My
suggestion to you at this point is to drop it. :)
Post by Loki
Loki
----

" On the far side of the earth
You were our walls, steel and flesh.
Against the barbarisms of our century.
Dedicated to all those who serve,
Especially those who serve in what we call peace
--- though it isn't.
But especially to those sailors, officers, and marines
--- and their families ---
Who served through the long cruises
The liberties
And sometimes, the actions
Of the Sixth Fleet.
For all those who made the last
sacrifice for what they believed was right.
We sent you to keep the peace for us.
Some of you never came back."
f***@nomail.com
2004-04-09 22:06:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bogart
Ok, what could the Pentagon have done within the 38 minutes?
And lets not be hindsight quarterbacks. Give me a logical response of
what you think could have done with the assets at hand on 9/11/01.
Thanks.
Let's see......

Emptied the building to it's underground levels
Scrambled the jets to shoot down the plane.....


Personally, I think the folks on the plane in PA should be branded
Traitors. But for them, we'd be rid of Congress.

Anyone want to guess how much it has cost to keep Bush out of
Washington for the last three years. I heard it's 2 Million everytime
AF 1 takes off and untold Billions keeping that fleet of planes
functional and properly guarded.
Bogart
2004-04-09 22:56:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@nomail.com
Post by Bogart
Ok, what could the Pentagon have done within the 38 minutes?
And lets not be hindsight quarterbacks. Give me a logical response of
what you think could have done with the assets at hand on 9/11/01.
Thanks.
Let's see......
Emptied the building to it's underground levels
Empty what building? The Pentagon? Did you know it was a target?
Post by f***@nomail.com
Scrambled the jets to shoot down the plane.....
What plane? The FAA command center reported 11 aircraft either not in
communication with FAA facilities, or flying unexpected routes between
~ 9:03 am on 9/11 until the Pentagon was hit. Hundreds of other
aircraft were scrambling to get down anywhere they could land.
Post by f***@nomail.com
Personally, I think the folks on the plane in PA should be branded
Traitors. But for them, we'd be rid of Congress.
I'm certain their widows, widowers, children, and parents would love
to hear your comments regarding their loved ones.
Post by f***@nomail.com
Anyone want to guess how much it has cost to keep Bush out of
Washington for the last three years. I heard it's 2 Million everytime
AF 1 takes off and untold Billions keeping that fleet of planes
functional and properly guarded.
f***@nomail.com
2004-04-10 00:31:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bogart
I'm certain their widows, widowers, children, and parents would love
to hear your comments regarding their loved ones.
What "loved ones" did we ever see except that Jesus Freak and her 14
kids. The wife of "Let's Roll".

She was a paid stooge for Bush and his band of terrorists.
For Christ sake, she even tried to sue someone who had copyrighted the
phrase "Let's Roll" before she got to it and some bastard Congressman
and several attornys were ready to jump on her bandwagon and violate
an already filed copyright. She got her millions from the 911 fund.
Though that is another issue I declare fraud. That 911 fund should
never have been allowed. The fucking airlines should have had to pay
for their piss poor security.

And..... I am a man of my words, both here under mask and to officials
under real name. I just chose not to use my real name or email here as
I don't want to feed the spammers or any fanatic that would look up my
name on any of the damn services that provide the capability on the
net. Any of you who do use real names or emails are just plain stupid.
Bogart
2004-04-10 04:33:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@nomail.com
Post by Bogart
I'm certain their widows, widowers, children, and parents would love
to hear your comments regarding their loved ones.
What "loved ones" did we ever see except that Jesus Freak and her 14
kids. The wife of "Let's Roll".
I don't care what you think of this particular woman. The fact
remains there are widows, widowers, children, parents and other loved
ones of the people who died on that flight. Calling their relatives
terrorists because you have some consuming sick hatred for the
government, Bush, Chaney, the NFL, Dairy Queen, reusable washcloths,
and whatever other psychotic bug you have stuck firmly up your ass, is
despicable.

I wonder if you would have had the courage to act as they did?
Post by f***@nomail.com
She was a paid stooge for Bush and his band of terrorists.
For Christ sake, she even tried to sue someone who had copyrighted the
phrase "Let's Roll" before she got to it and some bastard Congressman
and several attornys were ready to jump on her bandwagon and violate
an already filed copyright. She got her millions from the 911 fund.
Though that is another issue I declare fraud. That 911 fund should
never have been allowed. The fucking airlines should have had to pay
for their piss poor security.
And..... I am a man of my words, both here under mask and to officials
under real name. I just chose not to use my real name or email here as
I don't want to feed the spammers or any fanatic that would look up my
name on any of the damn services that provide the capability on the
net. Any of you who do use real names or emails are just plain stupid.
Jesus wept...why on gods good green earth would anyone care about the
name and email addy of a loon on usenet like yourself? :)
Jeff George
2004-04-12 18:56:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bogart
I wonder if you would have had the courage to act as they did?
Of course we don't really know that they did anything.

Jeff George
SLAP (Socialist Liberation Army of the People)
SLUG (Socialists for Liberty United Government)


Power to the People! Vive la revolution!
Viva La Revolucion!
f***@nomail.com
2004-04-12 19:11:30 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:56:48 -0400, Jeff George
Post by Bogart
I wonder if you would have had the courage to act as they did?
What proof is there that they did anything. Personally, I think the
plane was shot out of the air. But Lying Bastard Bush would NEVER
admit that because he knows:

1: It violates Possi Comatautis
2: The public would demand his resignation. Or Hang him.

Personally, I am amazed that someone hasn't taken a shot at him yet.

Though that would leave us with a Dick in the White House.

The first since Nixon.
Bill Schenley
2004-04-12 21:34:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@nomail.com
Post by Bogart
I wonder if you would have had the courage to act
as they did?
What proof is there that they did anything. Personally,
I think the plane was shot out of the air.
I think, in light of the available information since 9/11,
you are right.
Post by f***@nomail.com
But Lying Bastard Bush would NEVER admit that because
The Bush administration won't admit to it because they are
without courage ... However, if *I* were President on 9/11
... I would have had them shot down also.
Bogart
2004-04-12 23:01:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@nomail.com
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:56:48 -0400, Jeff George
Post by Bogart
I wonder if you would have had the courage to act as they did?
What proof is there that they did anything. Personally, I think the
plane was shot out of the air. But Lying Bastard Bush would NEVER
1: It violates Possi Comatautis
No it doesn't. You need to read up on Posse Comitatus.
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/comrel/factfile/Factcards/PosseComitatus.html

Posse Comitatus Act
Source: G-OPL

"POSSE COMITATUS ACT" (18 USC 1385): A Reconstruction Era criminal law
proscribing use of Army (later, Air Force) to "execute the laws"
except where expressly authorized by Constitution or Congress. Limit
on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy
by regulation. Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC
371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law
enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in
combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus
clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g.,
use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid,
surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation
of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and
arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments
(LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of
interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest
their crews). Positive results have been realized especially from Navy
ship/aircraft involvement.

---

No violation. No law enforcement agency has aircraft capable of
pursuing and shooting down an airliner.

HTH. :)





----

" On the far side of the earth
You were our walls, steel and flesh.
Against the barbarisms of our century.
Dedicated to all those who serve,
Especially those who serve in what we call peace
--- though it isn't.
But especially to those sailors, officers, and marines
--- and their families ---
Who served through the long cruises
The liberties
And sometimes, the actions
Of the Sixth Fleet.
For all those who made the last
sacrifice for what they believed was right.
We sent you to keep the peace for us.
Some of you never came back."
f***@nomail.com
2004-04-13 03:26:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bogart
No violation. No law enforcement agency has aircraft capable of
pursuing and shooting down an airliner.
Who said anything about aircraft. One guided missile out of the
bunkers in Maryland near Camp David and boom, no more plane.

Simple shot of less than 100 miles.
Bogart
2004-04-13 04:20:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@nomail.com
Post by Bogart
No violation. No law enforcement agency has aircraft capable of
pursuing and shooting down an airliner.
Who said anything about aircraft.
It was the most logical assumption until I read your next comment. :)
Post by f***@nomail.com
One guided missile out of the bunkers in Maryland near Camp David and
boom, no more plane.
Simple shot of less than 100 miles.
Can you name a police force which has surface to air missiles which
can track and shoot down a jet aircraft?

Do you understand Posse Comitatus or are you just *winging it * hoping
if you throw it into the discussion it will somehow add credence to
your shoot down theory? Hint: It doesn't. :)

----

" On the far side of the earth
You were our walls, steel and flesh.
Against the barbarisms of our century.
Dedicated to all those who serve,
Especially those who serve in what we call peace
--- though it isn't.
But especially to those sailors, officers, and marines
--- and their families ---
Who served through the long cruises
The liberties
And sometimes, the actions
Of the Sixth Fleet.
For all those who made the last
sacrifice for what they believed was right.
We sent you to keep the peace for us.
Some of you never came back."
f***@nomail.com
2004-04-13 16:25:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bogart
Can you name a police force which has surface to air missiles which
can track and shoot down a jet aircraft?
Posse Comitatus has nothing to do with a police force. It refers to
military actions against US Citizens. And there is enough military
hidden in the hills of Maryland and West Virginia to make most people
lose their supper. In fact, in the east coast in general.

Do you have any clue that Camp David is just a camground? Dream On.

Ever hear of "The Bunker" out in West Virginia where Congress was
supposed to go. Your wonderful government has spent billions keeping
that place functional for the last 30 years or so, maybe even more.

You like most of the public just don't have a clue what your
government can and will do to you. Remember Kent State?
My brother was there. Luckily he survived.

Next time you roll through Virginia, remind yourself that you are
surrounded by missile silos. We must protect Washington at any cost.
Too bad they forgot to plan for planes.

Personally, I think about 40 or 50 years from now it will come out
that George had direct knowledge of the planes and he and other Oil
assholes helped fund the whole operation. Essentially the same group
of people give or take a generation who helped kill Kennedy.

Exxon's profits are the largest in the world and they said,
"Fuck you very much!"

Ever wonder why every President always leaves office a multi
millionaire? Much richer than they were when they went in.
Blind trust my ass! You can bet GWB owns Exxon stock.

And last but certainly not least.

Osama Bin Laden will be catured before the election, if he hasn't been
already. He will be the trump card to convince millions of you stupid
insipid bastards to re-elect Bush. By all means go ahead.
Then, next year when you orone of your kids are drafted to go fight in
IRAQ, or KOREA, or IRAN, or VENEZUELA don't forget.......
You voted for the PRICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
theresa
2004-04-13 16:34:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@nomail.com
Post by Bogart
Can you name a police force which has surface to air missiles which
can track and shoot down a jet aircraft?
Posse Comitatus has nothing to do with a police force. It refers to
military actions against US Citizens. And there is enough military
hidden in the hills of Maryland and West Virginia to make most people
lose their supper. In fact, in the east coast in general.
Do you have any clue that Camp David is just a camground? Dream On.
Ever hear of "The Bunker" out in West Virginia where Congress was
supposed to go. Your wonderful government has spent billions keeping
that place functional for the last 30 years or so, maybe even more.
I had heard about "The Bunker" but what surprised me was that, on 9/11,
it appeared only the top-ranking Congressmen were helicoptered away from
the Capitol while Joe Schmoe Congressman was left to run down the street
on his own. That was very strange to me, and showed that even up there
in the rarefied air, some are considered more worth saving than
others...
PirateJohn
2004-04-13 17:20:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by theresa
I had heard about "The Bunker" but what surprised me was that, on 9/11,
it appeared only the top-ranking Congressmen were helicoptered away from
the Capitol while Joe Schmoe Congressman was left to run down the street
on his own.
Reportedly the Greenbrier hide-a-way, which may or may not be mothballed now,
was never intended to house all of Congress. Just a handful. And the Prez and
some of his/her cabinet.



~~~~~~~~~
Drug free, no-spin radio: http://www.airamericaradio.com/
Democracy in action: http://www.moveon.org

Like father, like son. One term.
April Cool
2004-04-13 22:34:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by PirateJohn
Post by theresa
I had heard about "The Bunker" but what surprised me was that, on 9/11,
it appeared only the top-ranking Congressmen were helicoptered away from
the Capitol while Joe Schmoe Congressman was left to run down the street
on his own.
Reportedly the Greenbrier hide-a-way, which may or may not be mothballed now,
was never intended to house all of Congress. Just a handful. And the Prez and
some of his/her cabinet.
That has to be true, at least as far as Congress is concerned, because
the emergency House of Representatives has only a relative handful of
chairs -- 50 or 60, I think. The Greenbriar probably had sixteen dozen
missiles targeted on it throughout the Cold War, anyway. I thought the
president and his people were supposed to go to a place called Mount
Weather, which was better defended (or defended at all, I mean).

PirateJohn
2004-04-13 16:50:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@nomail.com
Ever hear of "The Bunker" out in West Virginia where Congress was
supposed to go. Your wonderful government has spent billions keeping
that place functional for the last 30 years or so, maybe even more.
Underneath the Greenbrier. The funny thing about this super secret facility is
that it wasn't that secret at all. Many of the locals knew about the VIP
bunker but they just assumed that they outside World knew about it as well and
since news doesn't travel very quickly outside West Virginia ...


~~~~~~~~~
Drug free, no-spin radio: http://www.airamericaradio.com/
Democracy in action: http://www.moveon.org

Like father, like son. One term.
Bogart
2004-04-13 18:04:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@nomail.com
Post by Bogart
Can you name a police force which has surface to air missiles which
can track and shoot down a jet aircraft?
Posse Comitatus has nothing to do with a police force. It refers to
military actions against US Citizens.
You are incorrect. Posse Comitatus specifically places a limit on
use of the military for **civilian law enforcement**.

I gave you the cite with the US Code.

Here is the exchange again: ----
Post by f***@nomail.com
What proof is there that they did anything. Personally, I think the
plane was shot out of the air. But Lying Bastard Bush would NEVER
1: It violates Possi Comatautis
No it doesn't. You need to read up on Posse Comitatus.
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/comrel/factfile/Factcards/PosseComitatus.html

Posse Comitatus Act
Source: G-OPL

"POSSE COMITATUS ACT" (18 USC 1385): A Reconstruction Era criminal law
proscribing use of Army (later, Air Force) to "execute the laws"
except where expressly authorized by Constitution or Congress. Limit
on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy
by regulation. Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC
371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law
enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in
combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus
clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g.,
use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid,
surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation
of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and
arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments
(LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of
interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest
their crews). Positive results have been realized especially from Navy
ship/aircraft involvement.
----

A shoot down by the USAF on 9/11 would not have violated Posse
Comitatus.
Post by f***@nomail.com
And there is enough military
hidden in the hills of Maryland and West Virginia to make most people
lose their supper. In fact, in the east coast in general.
Do you have any clue that Camp David is just a camground? Dream On.
Ever hear of "The Bunker" out in West Virginia where Congress was
supposed to go. Your wonderful government has spent billions keeping
that place functional for the last 30 years or so, maybe even more.
I'm more familiar with this little " Farm" in Williamsburg, VA.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N1FE22208


The rest of your rambling diatribe I've kept intact without further
comment.

Remember : Who never know the true identity of those you encounter on
the other side of a computer monitor.
Post by f***@nomail.com
You like most of the public just don't have a clue what your
government can and will do to you. Remember Kent State?
My brother was there. Luckily he survived.
Next time you roll through Virginia, remind yourself that you are
surrounded by missile silos. We must protect Washington at any cost.
Too bad they forgot to plan for planes.
Personally, I think about 40 or 50 years from now it will come out
that George had direct knowledge of the planes and he and other Oil
assholes helped fund the whole operation. Essentially the same group
of people give or take a generation who helped kill Kennedy.
Exxon's profits are the largest in the world and they said,
"Fuck you very much!"
Ever wonder why every President always leaves office a multi
millionaire? Much richer than they were when they went in.
Blind trust my ass! You can bet GWB owns Exxon stock.
And last but certainly not least.
Osama Bin Laden will be catured before the election, if he hasn't been
already. He will be the trump card to convince millions of you stupid
insipid bastards to re-elect Bush. By all means go ahead.
Then, next year when you orone of your kids are drafted to go fight in
IRAQ, or KOREA, or IRAN, or VENEZUELA don't forget.......
You voted for the PRICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
----

" On the far side of the earth
You were our walls, steel and flesh.
Against the barbarisms of our century.
Dedicated to all those who serve,
Especially those who serve in what we call peace
--- though it isn't.
But especially to those sailors, officers, and marines
--- and their families ---
Who served through the long cruises
The liberties
And sometimes, the actions
Of the Sixth Fleet.
For all those who made the last
sacrifice for what they believed was right.
We sent you to keep the peace for us.
Some of you never came back."
Bogart
2004-04-12 22:56:34 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:56:48 -0400, Jeff George
Post by Jeff George
Post by Bogart
I wonder if you would have had the courage to act as they did?
Of course we don't really know that they did anything.
You are correct. We know from transcripts they were going to try and
attempt to do something, whether they actually were able to do
anything we will never know.
Post by Jeff George
Jeff George
SLAP (Socialist Liberation Army of the People)
SLUG (Socialists for Liberty United Government)
Power to the People! Vive la revolution!
Viva La Revolucion!
----

" On the far side of the earth
You were our walls, steel and flesh.
Against the barbarisms of our century.
Dedicated to all those who serve,
Especially those who serve in what we call peace
--- though it isn't.
But especially to those sailors, officers, and marines
--- and their families ---
Who served through the long cruises
The liberties
And sometimes, the actions
Of the Sixth Fleet.
For all those who made the last
sacrifice for what they believed was right.
We sent you to keep the peace for us.
Some of you never came back."
Bill Schenley
2004-04-09 07:59:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
She seemed like a real class act to me, and I was quite
impressed.
I thought she was lying through her teeth. Smirk and
all.
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
That's her shtick, looking brilliant and smirking her way
through the deceit.
Yep.
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
She's the National...Security...Advisor. She knew all
the
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
facts. She ignored all the facts. She didn't tell anyone
who needed to know that they might be in danger (you
know, like the Airlines, or the Department of
Transportation)
Com'on ... She couldn't do that. They needed a war.
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
She was asleep at the wheel before 9/11. She was
asleep at the wheel on the day of 9/11.
I don't agree. I don't think any of them were asleep at the
wheel. I think they were all just holding their collective
breath ... and waiting.
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
(Has everyone forgotten that our DEFENSE Department
was attacked a nice long while after the WTC?)
Yeah ... Almost 40 minutes ... which is *more* than a "nice
long while" in this instance. They should have responded
within seconds. *And* ... they could have.
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
And whether it was her idea or Cheney's or Rummy's or
Papa Bush's idea to target Iraq instead of the real perps,
she let that swell idea go forward. With a vengeance.
Condi is daddy's girl ... and daddy tried to sell this same
scenario to Clinton three years earlier.
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
As one of the 9/11 widows said, either she's lying or
she's
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
incompetent. In either case, she should be fired.
I don't think she's brilliant. She's just another one of
the bad guys.
Again, I disagree. I think she *is* brilliant ... and I
think she possesses as much evil as Cheney or GHWB.

I like the way she looked so sweet and feminine ... Then you
look at her eyes. They tell a different story. This witch
would rip out your heart and eat it ... just to watch your
kids cry.
Waterlou4
2004-04-09 16:16:24 UTC
Permalink
. . . think she *is* brilliant ... and I
think she possesses as much evil as Cheney or GHWB.

I like the way she looked so sweet and feminine ... Then you
look at her eyes. They tell a different story. This witch
would rip out your heart and eat it ... just to watch your
kids cry.<< -- Bill Schenley

Isn't anybody else frightened at the thought of an American citizen being
capable of saying something like this?
Bill Schenley
2004-04-09 16:56:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Waterlou4
. . . think she *is* brilliant ... and I
think she possesses as much evil as Cheney or
GHWB.
I like the way she looked so sweet and feminine ...
Then you look at her eyes. They tell a different story.
This witch would rip out your heart and eat it ... just
to watch your kids cry.<< -- Bill Schenley
Isn't anybody else frightened at the thought of an
American citizen being capable of saying something
like this?
I understand. You mean because the Bush administration has
been a tad lax on *completely* destroying the First
Amendment. Don't worry, Dolores ... they're about to pick
up the pace ...

BTW ... *I'm* kind'a frightened because so many Americans
are *afraid* to say the same thing ...

And, Dolores ... she's a fucking monster!
Terrymelin
2004-04-09 22:45:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Schenley
I understand. You mean because the Bush administration has
been a tad lax on *completely* destroying the First
Amendment. Don't worry, Dolores ... they're about to pick
up the pace ...
Yep, they've done such a good job that you're not even allowed to post stuff
like the above, are you?

Terry Ellsworth
Bill Schenley
2004-04-09 23:25:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terrymelin
Post by Bill Schenley
I understand. You mean because the Bush
administration has been a tad lax on *completely*
destroying the First Amendment. Don't worry,
Dolores ... they're about to pick up the pace ...
Yep, they've done such a good job that you're not
even allowed to post stuff like the above, are you?
As I wrote ... they have been a "tad lax" in *completely*
destroying the First Amendment ... but don't worry ...
November is just around the corner. They will pick up the
pace before the election.
Hyfler/Rosner
2004-04-09 23:57:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Schenley
Post by Terrymelin
Post by Bill Schenley
I understand. You mean because the Bush
administration has been a tad lax on *completely*
destroying the First Amendment. Don't worry,
Dolores ... they're about to pick up the pace ...
Yep, they've done such a good job that you're not
even allowed to post stuff like the above, are you?
As I wrote ... they have been a "tad lax" in *completely*
destroying the First Amendment ... but don't worry ...
November is just around the corner. They will pick up the
pace before the election.
Marshal Orders Tapes Of Scalia Talk Erased
Reporters Told Justice Bars Recording
By Charles Lane
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 9, 2004; Page A02


A federal marshal guarding Supreme Court Justice Antonin
Scalia ordered two reporters to erase audio recordings they
were making of Scalia's speech to a group of high school
students in Mississippi on Wednesday, prompting protests
from local journalists who said they were victims of
official interference with the press.

As Scalia was addressing an afternoon assembly at the
Presbyterian Christian High School in Hattiesburg, Deputy
U.S. Marshal Melanie Rube confronted the journalists and
told them they must erase their recordings because they
violated the justice's policy against audio- or videotaping
of his public appearances.

After Associated Press reporter Denise Grones balked, the
marshal took her digital recorder and erased its contents --
after Grones explained how the machine worked. The marshal
also asked Hattiesburg American reporter Antoinette Konz to
hand over a cassette tape and returned it, erased, after the
event.

"The deputy's actions were based on Justice Scalia's
long-standing policy prohibiting such recordings of his
remarks," David Turner, a spokesman for the U.S. Marshals
Service, said. But, he added: "Justice Scalia did not
instruct the deputy to take that action."

Editors at both the Hattiesburg American and the Jackson
bureau of the AP said their reporters had not been told
ahead of time that they could not record at the high school.

"I find it very curious where a Supreme Court justice spends
a significant amount of time talking about the Constitution,
he seems to omit the part about freedom of the press," said
Jon Broadbooks, executive editor of the American. "What
authority does the marshal service have to try to confiscate
reporters' tape recorders?"

Supreme Court spokesman Ed Turner said that Scalia was
unavailable for comment. "The justice generally prefers not
to have audio or video recordings of his remarks," Turner
said.

Like the recent debate over Scalia's refusal to recuse
himself after a duck-hunting trip with Vice President Cheney
while Cheney is a named party in a pending case at the
court, the incident in Mississippi drew attention to the
nearly complete autonomy each justice enjoys in deciding
matters that bear on how he or she is perceived by the
public. While some justices welcome television coverage of
their speeches, others shun it.

But confrontations between the media and justices' security
details, which are far smaller than those that surround the
president and some Cabinet officials, are rare. Members of
the court are guarded by Supreme Court police while in
Washington, and by U.S. marshals when they travel outside
the capital.

Deputy Marshal Rube is based at the Marshals Services'
Hattiesburg sub-office, Turner said. She had been instructed
to enforce Scalia's policy during preparations for his
visit, Turner added.

The incident at the high school followed a clash between
Scalia and the media earlier in the day at William Carey
College, a Baptist institution where Louis Griffin, with
whom Scalia regularly hunts turkeys, is a trustee.

College officials announced before Scalia's speech to a
large assembly that it could not be recorded. But they
invited the local media, including television reporters, to
talk with Scalia at a reception afterwards.

When Scalia saw cameras at the reception, however, he
informed the college's president, Larry W. Kennedy, that he
did not give interviews, and Kennedy asked the journalists
to leave, Kennedy said in a telephone interview.

Both of the reporters whose recordings were erased in the
afternoon were at the morning event when Scalia's ban was
announced.

But, said Ron Harrist, news editor of the AP's Jackson
bureau, the afternoon speech "was a separate event at the
high school. There was no announcement not to do it. We feel
like it [the order to erase] was unjustified. Our reporter
was strictly using a recorder to make sure she got what he
had to say correct."
Jeff George
2004-04-12 19:06:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
Marshal Orders Tapes Of Scalia Talk Erased
Reporters Told Justice Bars Recording
By Charles Lane
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 9, 2004; Page A02
Who cares whether this scumbag likes to be recorded or not? Is he
afraid his words will come back to haunt him? Another head for the
guillotine.

Jeff George
SLAP (Socialist Liberation Army of the People)
SLUG (Socialists for Liberty United Government)


Power to the People! Vive la revolution!
Viva La Revolucion!
April Cool
2004-04-09 17:45:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Schenley
. . . think she *is* brilliant ... and I
think she possesses as much evil as Cheney or GHWB.
I like the way she looked so sweet and feminine ... Then you
look at her eyes. They tell a different story. This witch
would rip out your heart and eat it ... just to watch your
kids cry.<< -- Bill Schenley
Isn't anybody else frightened at the thought of an American citizen being
capable of saying something like this?
In retrospect, "Mission Accomplished" frightens me more. I don't know
if what Bill said is true, but it sure was poetic.
doc
2004-04-09 21:39:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Waterlou4
Isn't anybody else frightened at the thought of an American citizen being
capable of saying something like this?
I want to know where you GET OFF defining what an American citzen
should say and how he should behave. The first amendment is explicit.
Harry Krause
2004-04-09 21:48:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by doc
Post by Waterlou4
Isn't anybody else frightened at the thought of an American citizen being
capable of saying something like this?
I want to know where you GET OFF defining what an American citzen
should say and how he should behave. The first amendment is explicit.
Duh-lores is a fascist at heart.
The Kentucky Wizard
2004-04-09 22:02:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Schenley
. . . think she *is* brilliant ... and I
think she possesses as much evil as Cheney or GHWB.
I like the way she looked so sweet and feminine ... Then you
look at her eyes. They tell a different story. This witch
would rip out your heart and eat it ... just to watch your
kids cry.<< -- Bill Schenley
Isn't anybody else frightened at the thought of an American
citizen being
Post by Bill Schenley
capable of saying something like this?
No, not when you consider that it's most likely the alcohol
doing all the talking.
--
© The Wiz ®
«¤»¥«¤»¥«¤»
Jeff George
2004-04-12 19:09:09 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 22:02:43 GMT, "The Kentucky Wizard"
Post by Waterlou4
Post by Bill Schenley
. . . think she *is* brilliant ... and I
think she possesses as much evil as Cheney or GHWB.
I like the way she looked so sweet and feminine ... Then you
look at her eyes. They tell a different story. This witch
would rip out your heart and eat it ... just to watch your
kids cry.<< -- Bill Schenley
Isn't anybody else frightened at the thought of an American
citizen being
Post by Bill Schenley
capable of saying something like this?
No, not when you consider that it's most likely the alcohol
doing all the talking.
Oh, look: a clever little christian.

Jeff George
SLAP (Socialist Liberation Army of the People)
SLUG (Socialists for Liberty United Government)


Power to the People! Vive la revolution!
Viva La Revolucion!
Terrymelin
2004-04-09 22:44:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Waterlou4
Isn't anybody else frightened at the thought of an American citizen being
capable of saying something like this?
I suppose we are innoculated to this kind of comment from the left since it is
so typical of the level of their political discourse.

They also famously wanted to "stone" Henry Hyde and his family as I recall.
Lovely people.

Terry Ellsworth
doc
2004-04-09 22:53:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terrymelin
I suppose we are innoculated to this kind of comment from the left since it is
so typical of the level of their political discourse.
They also famously wanted to "stone" Henry Hyde and his family as I recall.
Lovely people.
I can stand an ideologue and a bully. But I despise a hypocritical
bully!

Fortunately, your name-calling, prevaricating, delusional prose is not
the general norm amongst rightists, but it is irritating nonetheless.

BTW, that old lecherous adulterer Hyde is perfectly capable of taking
care of himself. But, like so many of you thin-skinned rightists, he
feels licensed to classify women seeking legal abortions as murderers,
yet he cannot understand the "uncivil" whirlwind he brings down around
himself by his demagoguery.

Common schoolyard bullies! The lot of you!
Terry del Fuego
2004-04-10 00:59:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Waterlou4
Isn't anybody else frightened at the thought of an American citizen being
capable of saying something like this?
He gets to say what he thinks, so do you. Or do you have special
rights?
The Kentucky Wizard
2004-04-09 08:43:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
Post by James Neibaur
I am one who generally disagrees with President Bush, but I
thought
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
Post by James Neibaur
Condoleeza Rice presented herself and her argument very
effectively. She
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
Post by James Neibaur
seemed like a real class act to me, and I was quite
impressed.
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
Post by James Neibaur
JN
I thought she was lying through her teeth. Smirk and all.
That's her shtick, looking brilliant and smirking her way
through the deceit.
She's the National...Security...Advisor. She knew all the
facts. She ignored all the facts. She didn't tell anyone
who needed to know that they might be in danger (you know,
like the Airlines, or the Department of Transportation)
She was asleep at the wheel before 9/11. She was asleep at
the wheel on the day of 9/11. (Has everyone forgotten that
our DEFENSE Department was attacked a nice long while after
the WTC?) And whether it was her idea or Cheney's or Rummy's
or Papa Bush's idea to target Iraq instead of the real
perps, she let that swell idea go forward. With a
vengeance.
As one of the 9/11 widows said, either she's lying or she's
incompetent. In either case, she should be fired.
I don't think she's brilliant. She's just another one of
the bad guys.
I dunno, she certainly had all the body language, and the
constant eye contact with her questioners, to lead me to believe
that her answers were sincere and honest. I also don't see her
as incompetent, perhaps a dozen other appellations may apply
when one thinks of her, but incompetent, no. She may have indeed
fooled me on this one, and if she did, she's a better
illusionist than Houdini could have ever hoped to have been.
--
© The Wiz ®
«¤»¥«¤»¥«¤»
Hyfler/Rosner
2004-04-09 12:24:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
I dunno, she certainly had all the body language, and the
constant eye contact with her questioners, to lead me to
believe
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
that her answers were sincere and honest. I also don't see
her
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
as incompetent, perhaps a dozen other appellations may
apply
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
when one thinks of her, but incompetent, no. She may have
indeed
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
fooled me on this one, and if she did, she's a better
illusionist than Houdini could have ever hoped to have
been.


Did you see the Daily Show last night? Hilarious. Try to
find the repeat today.

Just remember her title. National...Security...Advisor.
Now think about the National Security since her boss has
been in office.
James Neibaur
2004-04-09 15:41:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
Did you see the Daily Show last night? Hilarious. Try to
find the repeat today.
I caught it this morning, and it was indeed hilarious. Stewart (and his
people) did a very good job of picking out the stumbles that got past me (I
admit I only listened to the testimony on the car radio, which makes some
difference -- and the fact that I didn't hear the whole thing).

I perceived her as rather poised and together, but the Stewart presentation
showed me otherwise.

Interesting

JN
The Kentucky Wizard
2004-04-09 21:14:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
I dunno, she certainly had all the body language, and the
constant eye contact with her questioners, to lead me to
believe
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
that her answers were sincere and honest. I also don't see
her
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
as incompetent, perhaps a dozen other appellations may apply
when one thinks of her, but incompetent, no. She may have
indeed
Post by Hyfler/Rosner
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
fooled me on this one, and if she did, she's a better
illusionist than Houdini could have ever hoped to have been.
Did you see the Daily Show last night? Hilarious. Try to
find the repeat today.
Just remember her title. National...Security...Advisor.
Now think about the National Security since her boss has
been in office.
It's repeated at 7:00pm tonight, I'll have to check it out,
thanks.
--
© The Wiz ®
«¤»¥«¤»¥«¤»
Bob Champ
2004-04-08 23:50:36 UTC
Permalink
The problem Dr. Rice poses for you, fantom, and for people who think
like you, is that she is doing a superb job of defending the Bush
administration against the the charges of the highly politicized 9/11
Commission. (Personally, I loved it when she roasted Sen. Bob Kerry
when he tried to attack the lack of action on the _Cole_ incident.)

The Democrats, at least the ones on this list, like to believe that
the only intelligent people in government are Democrats. Once again,
Dr. Rice gives the lie to that stupid myth.

Your offensive attempt to brand her as a kind of twenty-first century
"house nigger" is about the level of attack that _would_ suggest
itself to you. However, as everyone saw today, Dr. Rice is a woman
with an exceptional mind, her own ideas, and her own life. Indeed, she
is one of the brightest stars of the African American community.

Would you attack this lady as viciously to her face as you did here?
Why write rubbish about her? You earn nothing but the contempt of
others by such posts.

Bob Champ
Post by f***@nomail.com
Bout the only thing she didn't do was say,
Yassir, Bush good Massa.
$50 bucks to the person who convinces her to see a dentist.
She could shread mulch with them teeth.
The Kentucky Wizard
2004-04-09 01:20:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@nomail.com
Bout the only thing she didn't do was say,
Yassir, Bush good Massa.
$50 bucks to the person who convinces her to see a dentist.
She could shread mulch with them teeth.
Second only to Margaret Thatcher perhaps, Condoleezza Rice is
the most intelligent woman in politics that I can recall off the
top of my head, with Barbara Jordan a definite third, and
Hillary Clinton (perhaps) fourth, and the fact that Rice had to
overcome two major obstacles, being a woman in a man's world and
being a black woman in a white woman's world, only validates her
intelligence, skill, decisiveness and overall drive. She went to
college when she was only 15, and is basically a walking
prodigy. Furthermore, she's not that bad looking a woman, she
can light cigars with your $50 bucks, and in her position of
authority, that aggravating part in her teeth is the least of
her concerns. If I were you, I wouldn't piss her off, you may
just turn up missing like Jimmy Hoffa did.
--
© The Wiz ®
«¤»¥«¤»¥«¤»
PirateJohn
2004-04-09 01:45:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
If I were you, I wouldn't piss her off, you may
just turn up missing like Jimmy Hoffa did.
I agree. Even if she is working for a Doofus, she made a good impression. She
would make a good addition to a Democratic, legitimately elected
administration.


~~~~~~~~~
Drug free, no-spin radio: http://www.airamericaradio.com/
Democracy in action: http://www.moveon.org

Like father, like son. One term.
Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
2004-04-09 04:22:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by PirateJohn
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
If I were you, I wouldn't piss her off, you may
just turn up missing like Jimmy Hoffa did.
I agree. Even if she is working for a Doofus, she made a good impression. She
would make a good addition to a Democratic, legitimately elected
administration.
Being rather fond of my head, I try not to get involved in these
political threads any more. However, I am curious about the term
'Oreo'. Is that supposed to be taken as some sort of racial slur? (And
*no*, I'm not kidding, it's just that I am unfamiliar with the term
except as the brand name for on of my favourite childhood cookies.) b


"When weaving nets, all threads count." - Charlie Chan

********
Wax-up and drop-in of Surfing's Golden Years: <http://www.surfwriter.net>
Bill Schenley
2004-04-09 04:19:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
Is that supposed to be taken as some sort of racial slur?
Yes. It refers to being black on the outside and white on
the inside.
Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
2004-04-09 05:29:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Schenley
Post by Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
Is that supposed to be taken as some sort of racial slur?
Yes. It refers to being black on the outside and white on
the inside.
Thanks for the heads-up. b


"When weaving nets, all threads count." - Charlie Chan

********
Wax-up and drop-in of Surfing's Golden Years: <http://www.surfwriter.net>
The Kentucky Wizard
2004-04-09 08:35:15 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:19:27 GMT, "Bill Schenley"
Post by Bill Schenley
Post by Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
Is that supposed to be taken as some sort of racial slur?
Yes. It refers to being black on the outside and white on
the inside.
Thanks for the heads-up. b
Well, there goes my definition out the window. ;-)~
--
© The Wiz ®
«¤»¥«¤»¥«¤»
Todd N. Verklarung
2004-04-10 04:24:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Schenley
Post by Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
Is that supposed to be taken as some sort of racial slur?
Yes. It refers to being black on the outside and white on
the inside.
I've been trying to remember (if I ever knew in the first
place) what you call someone who is white on the outside
and black on the inside. Anybody?

Todd(a.o)
The Kentucky Wizard
2004-04-10 05:26:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd N. Verklarung
Post by Bill Schenley
Post by Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
Is that supposed to be taken as some sort of racial slur?
Yes. It refers to being black on the outside and white on
the inside.
I've been trying to remember (if I ever knew in the first
place) what you call someone who is white on the outside
and black on the inside. Anybody?
Todd(a.o)
Wasn't they called "May Britt", as in the 2nd wife of Sammy
Davis, Jr.? No, it was another joke along the same lines that
contained her name in it. ;-)~
--
© The Wiz ®
«¤»¥«¤»¥«¤»
Loki
2004-04-10 05:36:20 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 05:26:55 GMT, "The Kentucky Wizard"
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
Post by Todd N. Verklarung
Post by Bill Schenley
Post by Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
Is that supposed to be taken as some sort of racial slur?
Yes. It refers to being black on the outside and white on
the inside.
I've been trying to remember (if I ever knew in the first
place) what you call someone who is white on the outside
and black on the inside. Anybody?
Todd(a.o)
Wasn't they called "May Britt", as in the 2nd wife of Sammy
Davis, Jr.? No, it was another joke along the same lines that
contained her name in it. ;-)~
The joke was "What is black and white and has three eyes?" The answer
was Sammy Davis and May Britt.

The first time I heard the term "oreo" was on All In The Family.


Loki
The Kentucky Wizard
2004-04-10 06:27:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Loki
On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 05:26:55 GMT, "The Kentucky Wizard"
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
Post by Todd N. Verklarung
Post by Bill Schenley
Post by Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
Is that supposed to be taken as some sort of racial slur?
Yes. It refers to being black on the outside and white on
the inside.
I've been trying to remember (if I ever knew in the first
place) what you call someone who is white on the outside
and black on the inside. Anybody?
Todd(a.o)
Wasn't they called "May Britt", as in the 2nd wife of Sammy
Davis, Jr.? No, it was another joke along the same lines that
contained her name in it. ;-)~
The joke was "What is black and white and has three eyes?" The
answer
Post by Loki
was Sammy Davis and May Britt.
The first time I heard the term "oreo" was on All In The
Family.
Post by Loki
Loki
Actually, the joke I was thinking of was; "What's long, black
and comes in a white box?", but I like that one as well.

I recall a black teacher I had in school, Ms. Guthrie, once told
our class that when Sammy Davis Jr. had that wreck in which he
lost his eyesight, it was in front of an "all-white" hospital,
and if he had been allowed to be taken there for treatment,
instead of the negro hospital across town, the doctors probably
would have be able to save his eyesight. I do know he lost his
sight in a wreck, but I've never found out whether the hospital
part is correct or not.
--
© The Wiz ®
«¤»¥«¤»¥«¤»
Loki
2004-04-10 06:33:45 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:27:52 GMT, "The Kentucky Wizard"
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
I recall a black teacher I had in school, Ms. Guthrie, once told
our class that when Sammy Davis Jr. had that wreck in which he
lost his eyesight, it was in front of an "all-white" hospital,
and if he had been allowed to be taken there for treatment,
instead of the negro hospital across town, the doctors probably
would have be able to save his eyesight. I do know he lost his
sight in a wreck, but I've never found out whether the hospital
part is correct or not.
Don't know if that is true or not, but in a related story that I heard
once, Bessie Smith died because she was in a car accident and taken to
a white hospital where they refused to admit her.


Loki
Bill Schenley
2004-04-10 07:01:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Loki
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
I recall a black teacher I had in school, Ms. Guthrie,
once told our class that when Sammy Davis Jr. had
that wreck in which he lost his eyesight, it was in
front of an "all-white" hospital, and if he had been
allowed to be taken there for treatment, instead of the
negro hospital across town, the doctors probably
would have be able to save his eyesight.
According to "Yes I Can" ... his eye was out of his head at
the accident scene.
Post by Loki
Don't know if that is true or not, but in a related story
that I heard once, Bessie Smith died because she was
in a car accident and taken to a white hospital where
they refused to admit her.
Not true:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/jarvis6.html

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/articles/arti1200_07.htm
Erik L.
2004-04-10 09:17:28 UTC
Permalink
From: "Bill Schenley"
Post by Loki
Don't know if that is true or not, but in a related story
that I heard once, Bessie Smith died because she was
in a car accident and taken to a white hospital where
they refused to admit her.
This really did happen to Dr Charles Drew, the man who invented the idea of the

blood bank.


Hanoi Jane and Hanoi John......Perfect Together

Erik L.
Terry del Fuego
2004-04-10 18:29:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Erik L.
This really did happen to Dr Charles Drew, the man who invented the idea of the
blood bank.
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_073.html
April Cool
2004-04-10 19:19:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Erik L.
From: "Bill Schenley"
Post by Loki
Don't know if that is true or not, but in a related story
that I heard once, Bessie Smith died because she was
in a car accident and taken to a white hospital where
they refused to admit her.
This really did happen to Dr Charles Drew, the man who invented the idea of the
blood bank.
No, it did not. "Drew was in fact treated in the emergency room of the
small, segregated Alamance General Hospital. Two white surgeons worked
hard to save him, but he died after about an hour."

http://www.urbanlegends.com/death/charles.drew/drew_love.html
James Neibaur
2004-04-10 12:17:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Loki
Don't know if that is true or not, but in a related story
that I heard once, Bessie Smith died because she was
in a car accident and taken to a white hospital where
they refused to admit her.
No, that is not how she died. But I believe a black doctor who came up with
the idea of (I think) blood transfusions bled to death after an accident
because the medics would not take him. I probably have the facts of the
story botched somehow -- but I am likely close.

JN
April Cool
2004-04-10 19:19:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Neibaur
Post by Loki
Don't know if that is true or not, but in a related story
that I heard once, Bessie Smith died because she was
in a car accident and taken to a white hospital where
they refused to admit her.
No, that is not how she died. But I believe a black doctor who came up with
the idea of (I think) blood transfusions bled to death after an accident
because the medics would not take him. I probably have the facts of the
story botched somehow -- but I am likely close.
JN
No. That story about the death of Dr. Charles Drew is an urban legend.
See my other post.
James Neibaur
2004-04-10 19:52:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by April Cool
No. That story about the death of Dr. Charles Drew is an urban legend.
See my other post.
Yeah, someone emailed me and set me straight -- turns out I was remember a
MASH episode from around 30 years ago!

JN
The Kentucky Wizard
2004-04-10 14:02:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Loki
On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:27:52 GMT, "The Kentucky Wizard"
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
I recall a black teacher I had in school, Ms. Guthrie, once
told
Post by Loki
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
our class that when Sammy Davis Jr. had that wreck in which
he
Post by Loki
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
lost his eyesight, it was in front of an "all-white"
hospital,
Post by Loki
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
and if he had been allowed to be taken there for treatment,
instead of the negro hospital across town, the doctors
probably
Post by Loki
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
would have be able to save his eyesight. I do know he lost
his
Post by Loki
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
sight in a wreck, but I've never found out whether the
hospital
Post by Loki
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
part is correct or not.
Don't know if that is true or not, but in a related story that
I heard
Post by Loki
once, Bessie Smith died because she was in a car accident and
taken to
Post by Loki
a white hospital where they refused to admit her.
Loki
I seem to recall that the Bessie Smith incident was determined
to be an urban legend, and that she was either dead on the
scene, or most likely died en route to the negro hospital, which
was actually closer than the white hospital was. It does however
speak of the times back then, and although it didn't actually
happen to the 'Bessie Smiths' of the world, it most likely did
happen on more than one occasion to those with much lesser
notoriety.
--
© The Wiz ®
«¤»¥«¤»¥«¤»
Bill Schenley
2004-04-10 05:26:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd N. Verklarung
Post by Bill Schenley
Post by Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
Is that supposed to be taken as some sort of racial
slur?
Yes. It refers to being black on the outside and white
on
Post by Todd N. Verklarung
Post by Bill Schenley
the inside.
I've been trying to remember (if I ever knew in the first
place) what you call someone who is white on the outside
and black on the inside. Anybody?
All I can think of is ... Wigger ...
April Cool
2004-04-10 09:37:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd N. Verklarung
Post by Bill Schenley
Post by Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
Is that supposed to be taken as some sort of racial slur?
Yes. It refers to being black on the outside and white on
the inside.
I've been trying to remember (if I ever knew in the first
place) what you call someone who is white on the outside
and black on the inside. Anybody?
The King of Pop.
The Kentucky Wizard
2004-04-09 08:34:23 UTC
Permalink
(PirateJohn)
Post by Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
Post by PirateJohn
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
If I were you, I wouldn't piss her off, you may
just turn up missing like Jimmy Hoffa did.
I agree. Even if she is working for a Doofus, she made a
good impression. She
Post by Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
Post by PirateJohn
would make a good addition to a Democratic, legitimately
elected
Post by Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
Post by PirateJohn
administration.
Being rather fond of my head, I try not to get involved in
these
Post by Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
political threads any more. However, I am curious about the
term
Post by Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
'Oreo'. Is that supposed to be taken as some sort of racial
slur? (And
Post by Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
*no*, I'm not kidding, it's just that I am unfamiliar with the
term
Post by Robert Feigel (aka Bob)
except as the brand name for on of my favourite childhood
cookies.) b
Yes, it's meant to be a racial slur, Bob, but it's a poor one,
at least by what I thought the definition of it always meant.
The idiot who posted it was only referring to a single black
person, and the last time I had an Oreo, it was comprised of two
dark brown cookies, with a white center, made of something I'd
prefer not to know of what it's made of. So in order to make
this racial slur a legitimate slur, if there is such a thing, it
would have to be in reference to two black people, and a white
person, preferably inbetween.
--
© The Wiz ®
«¤»¥«¤»¥«¤»
Mpoconnor7
2004-04-09 01:53:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Kentucky Wizard
Second only to Margaret Thatcher perhaps, Condoleezza Rice is
the most intelligent woman in politics that I can recall off the
top of my head, with Barbara Jordan a definite third, and
Hillary Clinton (perhaps) fourth, and the fact that Rice had to
overcome two major obstacles, being a woman in a man's world and
being a black woman in a white woman's world, only validates her
intelligence, skill, decisiveness and overall drive. She went to
college when she was only 15, and is basically a walking
prodigy.
Her list of credentials are impressive; probably more impressive than anybody
else in Bush's inner circle. She is quite possibly the most intelligent woman
on the face of the Earth.

Michael O'Connor - Modern Renaissance Man

"The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a direct
proportion to the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong"
James Mason from the movie "Heaven Can Wait".
Jim Beaver
2004-04-09 06:21:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mpoconnor7
Michael O'Connor - Modern Renaissance Man
"The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a direct
proportion to the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong"
James Mason from the movie "Heaven Can Wait".
Michael, obviously James Mason didn't write this line. Do you know if it
was originally written by Elaine May or Warren Beatty in their screenplay
for "Heaven Can Wait" or was it part of Harry Segall's original play? I
could swear I'd heard this statement years before "Heaven Can Wait."

Jim Beaver
Mpoconnor7
2004-04-09 12:59:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Beaver
Post by Mpoconnor7
"The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a direct
proportion to the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong"
James Mason from the movie "Heaven Can Wait".
Michael, obviously James Mason didn't write this line. Do you know if it
was originally written by Elaine May or Warren Beatty in their screenplay
for "Heaven Can Wait" or was it part of Harry Segall's original play? I
could swear I'd heard this statement years before "Heaven Can Wait."
Jim Beaver
I don't know, Jim. I've never seen the play or movie which was adapted into
"Heaven Can Wait". I thought it was a true statement; history is full of
people who fit that description, like Gandhi, as an example.

If you remember the movie about Preston Tucker and his dream car which was so
radical that the Big Three automakers leaned on the Government to put him out
of business before he could get his car business rolliung, then they later
adopted many of his innovations such as seat belts. Tucker was another person
who fit this statement.

All movements start with one person who says "This is BS; things shouldn't be
this way; there is a better way to do things." , and summarily gets shouted
down by everybody else. The first feminist, Rosa Parks and Nelson Mandela
would also fit the bill.

I don't know if a book like Bartlett's Quotations would carry an obscure quote
like that. I'd love to know who originated the quote so I could give proper
credit.


Michael O'Connor - Modern Renaissance Man

"The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a direct
proportion to the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong"
James Mason from the movie "Heaven Can Wait".
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