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Sweden's liberal virus strategy questioned as death toll mounts
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Dave P.
2020-04-08 17:17:43 UTC
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Sweden's liberal virus strategy questioned as death toll mounts
While large gatherings have been banned, Sweden has yet to enforce movement restrictions seen in other European nations.
6 Apr 2020, Al Jazeera

A spike in novel coronavirus infections and deaths in Stockholm has raised questions about Sweden's decision to fight the outbreak without resorting to the lockdowns that have left much of Europe at a standstill.

Governments across Europe have closed schools and taken draconian measures to limit exposure to possible carriers, with Germany, for example, enforcing bans on more than two people meeting in public.

Among Sweden's Nordic neighbours, Denmark has closed its borders and shut its schools, as has Norway, while Finland has isolated its main urban region.

Yet Swedes are able to go to restaurants, get a haircut and send their children to school even as the number of confirmed cases and deaths has mounted, above all in Stockholm which accounts for more than half the fatalities.

An analysis of smartphone location data showed that while visits to public places has fallen steeply in most European countries, Sweden is bucking the trend.

But Sweden's liberal approach, which aims to minimise disruption to social and economic life, is coming under fire as the epidemic spreads in the capital.

"We don't have a choice, we have to close Stockholm right now," Cecilia Soderberg-Naucler, professor of Microbial Pathogenesis at the Karolinska Institute, told Reuters.

She is one of around 2,300 academics who signed an open letter to the government at the end of last month, calling for tougher measures to protect the healthcare system.

"We must establish control over the situation, we cannot head into a situation where we get complete chaos. No one has tried this route, so why should we test it first in Sweden, without informed consent?" she said.

Sweden reported 612 new cases on Friday, bringing the total to around 6,000. The death toll has reached 333, with fatalities now running at about 25-30 a day, according to the Swedish Public Health Agency.

Storm in Stockholm

There are growing signs the virus is spreading at elderly care homes, again mainly in the capital, where some staff at hospitals and nursing homes have publicly warned of a lack of protective equipment such as masks.

Facing what a local official has called "a storm" of COVID-19 cases, Stockholm has opened a field hospital at a convention complex south of the city centre and called on anyone with medical training to help care for the sick.

At a news conference this week, centre-left Prime Minister Stefan Lofven fielded questions over whether the rising number of cases at Sweden's nursing homes was evidence of a failing strategy.

"I don't think it is a sign of that. This is what things look like around Europe," he said. "We have said all along that things will get worse before they get better."

Sweden has focused on isolating and treating the sick rather than closing down swaths of society.

Gatherings of more than 50 people have been banned, high schools and universities have moved teaching online and people have been told not to take unnecessary trips, all quite low-key measures in a European context.

The public face of Sweden's pandemic fight, Health Agency State Epidemiologist Anders Tegnell, only months ago a little-known civil servant but now rivalling the prime minister for publicity, has questioned how effectively lockdowns can be enforced over time.

"It is important to have a policy that can be sustained over a longer period, meaning staying home if you are sick, which is our message," said Tegnell, who has received both threats and fan mail over the country's handling of the crisis.

"Locking people up at home won't work in the longer term," he said. "Sooner or later people are going to go out, anyway."

On Monday, Sweden also announced it would keep domestic flights going, despite the risk of spreading the coronavirus.

The government said a total of eight routes, seven to Northern Sweden and one to the island of Gotland, would be kept open by the government, which will purchase the service from the airlines that previously operated the routes.

The country's central bank will also extend its loan programme to individual companies, it said on Monday, in a bid to reach businesses affected by the outbreak.

The Riksbank announced a loan scheme of 500 billion Swedish crowns ($49bn) last month, intended as a means to provide money to struggling businesses via the country's banks, but the uptake so far has been limited.

"To enable these changes, adjusted, more generous terms will be applied," the Riksbank said in a statement. "They also apply to the monetary policy counterparties that have already taken loans within the programme."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/sweden-liberal-virus-strategy-questioned-death-toll-mounts-200406153834335.html
d***@gmail.com
2020-04-08 17:39:13 UTC
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Too little
Too late

Blind fools!
Dave P.
2020-04-08 21:02:58 UTC
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Too little. Too late
Blind fools!
Was Dr. Strangelove an Epidemiologist?
A doctor on the frontlines of the coronavirus crisis has special permission to tell the truth.
By Holman W. Jenkins, Jr., 4/3/20, Wall St. Journal

“There is no price too high to save a life,” says New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy.

“We will not put a dollar figure on human life,” declares New York’s Andrew Cuomo.

These statements would be insane if anyone considered them seriously. Or take an icon of high-status wisdom, Bill Gates, who calls for a 10-week national shutdown in the Washington Post. He does not offer any cost-benefit analysis but he knows his audience: “Through my work with the Gates Foundation, I’ve spoken with experts & leaders in Washington & across the country”—i.e., people like himself.

The problem here is not an inability to think clearly. It’s an unwillingness to be seen thinking clearly.

Let’s understand something: The point of cost-benefit analysis is not the one that launched a thousand op-eds, to trade human lives for mere dollars. Its purpose is to help us weigh different kinds of harm against each other so we can achieve our goals at the least possible cost.

A voice of realism is UCLA’s Joseph A. Ladapo, perhaps because he’s a medical doctor who has been treating Covid-19 patients & has permission to be realistic. In USA Today, he writes that we missed any chance to corral a virus that will spare most of us but kill thousands. The shutdowns if prolonged will only make our situation worse. They will add mass unemployment, poverty & missed schooling to our problems.

“The epidemiologic models I’ve seen indicate that the shutdowns & school closures will temporarily slow the virus’ spread, but when they’re lifted, we will essentially emerge right back where we started. And, by the way, no matter what, our hospitals will still be overwhelmed.”

The alternative, contrary to much lazy thinking, is not the “let it rip” scenario. Politicians couldn’t mandate doing nothing if they wanted to. The American people by now are fully engaged: They will be wielding 300 million scalpels to cut the most high-risk interactions out of their lives, & likely more efficiently than any one-size cower-in-place order from the feds could achieve.

This is not a libertarian antidote. The govt has a role to play in making testing universally available, beefing up hospitals, boosting supplies of masks & gloves.

Readers for weeks have asked if the virus came from a Wuhan weapons lab, an inquiry now raised in the Washington Post. My answer: A bioweapon is unlikely but bat viruses have been an interest of researchers since the SARS outbreak in 2003. A careless researcher is more likely to have been involved in the jump from bat to human than somebody who had no reason to be messing around with bats in the first place.

There is much that we don’t know, & much that we know that probably is wrong, thanks to Chinese dissembling. Fresh reporting points to renewed shutdowns in certain Chinese cities & counties, unrecorded deaths, uncounted infections, a leaked CIA warning to the U.S. president that Beijing’s claims can’t be trusted.

The World Health Organization may have much to answer for, its officials having rushed to lend credence to China’s boast of having quashed a flu-like disease when it was already loose in a population of 1.4 billion. “It’s long been thought that transmission of viruses that cause influenza-like illnesses can’t really be stopped,” says the respected medical site StatNews, implying that such “dogma” now can be discarded.

This may be the miscalculation of all time, with high consequences for countries that have taken China as a model. Far from certain is whether cooping people up at home hasn’t just aided the virus to find its most vulnerable victims. Our nagging of young people may be exactly wrong according to immunologists who see only one endgame: mass exposure & mass immunity to reduce the virus to a recurrent nuisance.

Our bodies are home to trillions more microbes than human cells. The purity of our essence may not be protectable.

Donald Trump is mocked for invoking the most ancient of medical advice, “do no harm,” i.e., don’t let the cure be worse than the disease. He was right when he called himself a wartime president, & may have taken a turn for the worse when he decided the solution for him politically & personally is to start talking about saving lives without regard for the cost to the 71% of our workforce who can’t work from home.

I keep thinking of Omar Bradley before D-Day warning his troops that pols back home were exaggerating potential casualties to ward off blowback on their own careers—tommyrot he called it. “Some of you won’t come back,” he told his men, “but it’ll be very few.” Many things are worth doing; many risks are worth taking, & many are worth avoiding. It would be great to have more clear thinking about which is which in our present crisis.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/was-dr-strangelove-an-epidemiologist-11585952947
Travoltron
2020-04-08 22:26:39 UTC
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I'm very tired of Facebook friends posting about how the idiotic Swedes
are "doin' it right!"

I've seen videos of their sizable Mulsim populations refusing to follow
quarrantine or distancing. They believe it's a CIA/Mossaud hoax and that
even if it was real, Allah will protect them.

So the Swedes realize that there's no way for them to enforce anything.
d***@gmail.com
2020-04-08 23:01:54 UTC
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Travelton:

I'm very tired of Facebook friends posting about how the idiotic Swedes are "doin' it right!"

I've seen videos of their sizable Mulsim populations refusing to follow quarantine or distancing. They believe it's a CIA/Mossaud hoax and that even if it was real, Allah will protect them.

So the Swedes realize that there's no way for them to enforce anything.

OMG!

You are brilliant! I will be certain to read everything you post hereinafter.

You are 💯% correct. You show age and wisdom. Thank y’all.
Travoltron
2020-04-11 13:49:53 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
OMG!
You are brilliant! I will be certain to read everything you post hereinafter.
You are 💯% correct. You show age and wisdom. Thank y’all.
Aw, thanks! But I don't think I'm any of these things.
I started lurking this newsgroup as a teenager through AOL. I posted
occasionally and I'm sure half of what I posted was idiotic.
Now I'm in my mid 40s and I don't know where the time went.
d***@gmail.com
2020-04-11 15:34:33 UTC
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Travelton:

Aw, thanks! But I don't think I'm any of these things. I started lurking this newsgroup as a teenager through AOL. I posted occasionally and I'm sure half of what I posted was idiotic. Now I'm in my mid 40s and I don't know where the time went.

I 💕you for speaking truth. I don’t feel so all alone on the Islam problem that started in 1993 w first failed bomb attack in NY, then followed up on 9-11.

Take good care.
Terry del Fuego
2020-04-11 17:57:50 UTC
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I don’t feel so all alone on the Islam problem that started in 1993
You're making me wonder what start date I'd put on the Christian
problem.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-04-11 18:04:46 UTC
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Post by Terry del Fuego
I don't feel so all alone on the Islam problem that started in 1993
You're making me wonder what start date I'd put on the Christian
problem.
I see Christians. They're everywhere.
Travoltron
2020-04-15 01:31:44 UTC
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Post by Terry del Fuego
You're making me wonder what start date I'd put on the Christian
problem.
"Whaddabout Christians?" - every response of yours.
Terry del Fuego
2020-04-15 01:54:59 UTC
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On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 18:31:44 -0700, Travoltron
Post by Travoltron
"Whaddabout Christians?" - every response of yours.
Bullshit. You're either confusing me with someone else or deliberately
being obtuse. If nothing else, you completely missed the context,
which an adult would understand made it *not* an attack on *anyone's*
faith but in fact an attack on the OP's continuous, repeated,
assholistic bigotry toward a specific one.

Of course, it seems likely that you share that same bigotry, so it's
understandable why you'd feel the need to deflect.
Travoltron
2020-04-16 18:21:05 UTC
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Post by Terry del Fuego
Bullshit. You're either confusing me with someone else or deliberately
being obtuse.
You've done it twice in this very thread, dumbass.
Post by Terry del Fuego
but in fact an attack on the OP's continuous, repeated,
assholistic bigotry toward a specific one.
Of course, it seems likely that you share that same bigotry, so it's
understandable why you'd feel the need to deflect.
More moral equivalence nonsense. Please, move to the Islamic country of
your choice if you love it so much.
Terry del Fuego
2020-04-16 19:04:28 UTC
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 11:21:05 -0700, Travoltron
Post by Travoltron
You've done it twice in this very thread, dumbass.
I didn't attack Christianity. I pointed out the hypocrisy of two
different shit-eating fuckholes that took their dicks out of their
siblings just long enough to think that attacking another religion
made them look cool. I can see, however, that idiots with zero
self-awareness or concept of irony would see that as an attack on
Christianity. To actually think it through would probably cause them
excruciating agony.

What's really amusing is that one of those fuckholes actually
responded to one of the two posts in question in a manner that seemed
to indicate that it actually understood what I was trying to say. Yet
here it is now claiming otherwise. Weird.
Post by Travoltron
Please, move to the Islamic country of your choice if you love it so much.
There are few things that make my dick harder than rectal afterbirths
who think they're contradicting me when in fact they're continuing to
repeatedly make my point for me.
d***@gmail.com
2020-04-16 19:40:52 UTC
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Travoltron (finally speled correctly)

More moral equivalence nonsense. Please, move to the Islamic country of your choice if you love it so much.


Moral equivalency?

Genius Alert 🚨

Go to head of the class!!
d***@gmail.com
2020-04-16 13:51:45 UTC
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Oh,
boy.

File under
“Too. Stooopid to Survive”.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/swedish-virus-deaths-top-1000-fueling-criticism-over-strategy/ar-BB12C1xU
Travoltron
2020-04-16 18:22:15 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Oh,
boy.
File under
“Too. Stooopid to Survive”.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/swedish-virus-deaths-top-1000-fueling-criticism-over-strategy/ar-BB12C1xU
I won't mourn the loss of Sweden. They did this to themselves and
they'll never learn.
d***@gmail.com
2020-04-16 19:38:46 UTC
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Travoltan:

I won't mourn the loss of Sweden. They did this to themselves and they'll never learn.

You’re wise beyond your years (40s)

It took me to my 70s to catch up. And, I am very smart and well educated (3 advance degrees my doc at 25).

WAY TO GO!!! If you were my kid, I’d trust you w my estate. LOL
d***@gmail.com
2020-04-16 19:42:27 UTC
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Travoltron:

I won't mourn the loss of Sweden. They did this to themselves and they'll never learn.



You’re wise beyond your years (40s)

It took me to my 70s to catch up. And, I am very smart and well educated (3 advance degrees my doc at 25).

WAY TO GO!!! If you were my kid, I’d trust you w my estate. LOL
d***@gmail.com
2020-05-31 16:50:27 UTC
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Travoltron:

I won't mourn the loss of Sweden. They did this to themselves and they'll never learn.


Hey, Travoltron!

Here’s proof of how smart you are.

Sad to see people suffer unnecessarily....

Yes! Suffer 10 fold. We saw it coming.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/swedens-covid-death-rate-now-ten-times-higher-than-norways/
d***@gmail.com
2020-06-03 23:35:51 UTC
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https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong

This group told you it was wrong.

Sheesh. File under “Sorry About That”.

So much for the dead 😳
d***@gmail.com
2020-06-08 15:01:10 UTC
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DOA SWEDEN’s ECONOMY


https://au.news.yahoo.com/sweden-didnt-lock-down-economy-plunge-anyway-031659331--spt.html

File under:

“You can’t win them all but it
would be nice to win one once
in a while”.
d***@gmail.com
2020-07-21 18:09:08 UTC
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https://theweek.com/speedreads/926741/dozens-swedish-doctors-scientists-criticize-countrys-coronavirus-approach-grim-oped
Terry del Fuego
2020-04-09 12:58:54 UTC
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On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 15:26:39 -0700, Travoltron
Post by Travoltron
even if it was real, Allah will protect them.
Sounds familiar.
<https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/im-covered-in-jesus-blood-defiant-churchgoer-tells-cnn-she-cant-get-sick-because-shes-christian/>
Travoltron
2020-04-09 13:28:07 UTC
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Post by Terry del Fuego
On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 15:26:39 -0700, Travoltron
Post by Travoltron
even if it was real, Allah will protect them.
Sounds familiar.
<https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/im-covered-in-jesus-blood-defiant-churchgoer-tells-cnn-she-cant-get-sick-because-shes-christian/>
Yep. Same idiocy, different flavor.
Louis Epstein
2020-04-12 18:04:42 UTC
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Post by Dave P.
Sweden's liberal virus strategy questioned as death toll mounts
While large gatherings have been banned, Sweden has yet to enforce movement restrictions seen in other European nations.
6 Apr 2020, Al Jazeera
A spike in novel coronavirus infections and deaths in Stockholm has raised questions about Sweden's decision to fight the outbreak without resorting to the lockdowns that have left much of Europe at a standstill.
Governments across Europe have closed schools and taken draconian measures to limit exposure to possible carriers, with Germany, for example, enforcing bans on more than two people meeting in public.
Current coronavirus-cases-per-million numbers in Sweden:1,038
In Spain,with massive lockdown measures:3,551
In NY state,with Cuomo's tyrannical "all non-essential gatherings of individuals of
any size for any reason are temporarily banned",with "non-essential" and
"temporarily" meaning whatever he says:9,618

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Kenny McCormack
2020-04-12 18:46:28 UTC
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In article <r6vl7q$nk5$***@reader2.panix.com>,
Louis Epstein <***@top.put.com> wrote:
...
Current coronavirus-cases-per-million numbers in Sweden: 1,038
In Spain,with massive lockdown measures: 3,551
In NY state,with Cuomo's tyrannical "all non-essential gatherings of
individuals of any size for any reason are temporarily banned",with
"non-essential" and >"temporarily" meaning whatever he says: 9,618
Your point being?

Of course, I can take a pretty good guess, but everybody would be best
served if you made it explicit and not left us guessing.
--
Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a God superior to themselves.
Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.
Louis Epstein
2020-04-14 02:54:40 UTC
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Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Dave P.
Sweden's liberal virus strategy questioned as death toll mounts
While large gatherings have been banned, Sweden has yet to enforce movement restrictions seen in other European nations.
6 Apr 2020, Al Jazeera
A spike in novel coronavirus infections and deaths in Stockholm has raised questions about Sweden's decision to fight the outbreak without resorting to the lockdowns that have left much of Europe at a standstill.
Governments across Europe have closed schools and taken draconian measures to limit exposure to possible carriers, with Germany, for example, enforcing bans on more than two people meeting in public.
Current coronavirus-cases-per-million numbers in Sweden:1,038
Update:1,084
Post by Louis Epstein
In Spain,with massive lockdown measures:3,551
3,638
Post by Louis Epstein
In NY state,with Cuomo's tyrannical "all non-essential gatherings of individuals of
any size for any reason are temporarily banned",with "non-essential" and
"temporarily" meaning whatever he says:9,618
9,973
Post by Louis Epstein
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
l***@yahoo.com
2020-04-16 16:17:08 UTC
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You can see the figures for all countries here (scroll down a bit):

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

It's bizarre when you look up the OVERALL populations for the countries. Example: Sweden's population is slightly higher than Switzerland's, so, as you'd expect, there are more deaths. But... there are well over twice as many DIAGNOSED cases in Switzerland! So, that means Switzerland has a far lower death rate, of course.

Also, Austria has a smaller overall population than Czechia - but well over twice as many cases AND deaths. Even so, Austria's death rate, right now, is lower even than...Germany's! (Then again, given that Germany's overall population is well over 9 times that of Austria, it probably isn't fair to compare the two.)


Lenona.
l***@yahoo.com
2020-04-16 16:43:50 UTC
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Ok, it's possible that Sweden doesn't test as aggressively as Switzerland does, of course.

But in the meantime...the Netherlands have an 11% death rate, while Germany's is still under 3%.

(A surly lawyer whose name I don't know claimed that Germany just counts deaths differently. E.g., if someone with cancer, plus the virus, dies, that gets listed as a death from cancer. She did not offer proof of that - or any proof that other European countries count differently. Besides, from what I hear, Germany has a higher percentage of nurses than its neighbors, which apparently makes a big difference in the survival rate.)


Lenona.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-04-16 17:16:17 UTC
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Post by l***@yahoo.com
Ok, it's possible that Sweden doesn't test as aggressively as
Switzerland does, of course.
But in the meantime...the Netherlands have an 11% death rate, while
Germany's is still under 3%.
If you test more people, then the statistics will show a lower death
rate. The death rate per 100,000 is an entirely different statistics.
Post by l***@yahoo.com
(A surly lawyer whose name I don't know claimed that Germany just counts
deaths differently. E.g., if someone with cancer, plus the virus, dies,
that gets listed as a death from cancer. She did not offer proof of that
- or any proof that other European countries count differently. Besides,
from what I hear, Germany has a higher percentage of nurses than its
neighbors, which apparently makes a big difference in the survival
rate.)
Well, there aren't universal epidemiological standards, are there.

Think about this: Why would you want death rates from the underlying
condition to be shown as lower? Then we won't have adequate statistics
to compare to other years. Wow! In 2020, no one with a corona virus
infection died of heart disease! We must have solved all our bad habits!

That's not helpful in any way.
l***@yahoo.com
2020-04-16 17:21:33 UTC
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Yes, but eventually, I hope, we can get Venn diagrams for all countries.
l***@yahoo.com
2020-04-16 17:24:38 UTC
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Besides, again, what proof is there that Germany counts differently from most other countries?
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