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Shere Hite, 77, feminist/female sexuality-themed author (The Hite Report)
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That Derek
2020-09-10 18:23:34 UTC
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https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/sep/10/she-began-the-real-sexual-revolution-for-women-shere-hite-dies-aged-77

She began the real sexual revolution for women': Shere Hite dies aged 77
Reviled by Playboy, her 1976 study of 3,500 women challenged male assumptions about sex

Matthew Weaver
Thu 10 Sep 2020 12.30 EDT

The pioneering feminist Shere Hite, known for her research on female sexuality, has died at the age of 77. She was best known for The Hite Report: A Nationwide Study of Female Sexuality, which has sold more than 50m copies since publication in 1976.

Based on the views of 3,500 women, it challenged male assumptions about sex by revealing that many women were not stimulated by sexual penetration. It also encouraged women to take control of their sex lives. It was dismissed as “anti-male” and dubbed the Hate Report by Playboy.

“I was saying that penetration didn’t do anything for women and that got some people terribly upset,” she told the Guardian in 2011.

She added: “I was the only sex researcher at that time who was feminist. I tried to extend the idea of sexual activity to female orgasm and masturbation.”

Hite’s husband, Paul Sullivan, confirmed that she had died at their home in Tottenham, north London, on Wednesday.

Hite was born in the socially conservative US state of Missouri, to her 16-year-old mother, and was raised by her grandparents.

While doing postgraduate research at Columbia University she posed nude in an advert for an Olivetti typewriter in the early 1970s. When the advert appeared in Playboy under the caption: “The typewriter so smart, she doesn’t have to be,” she backed protests against it.

Sustained criticism of her in the US, much of it highly personalised, led Hite to renounce her US citizenship in 1995.

She was married for 14 years to the German pianist Friedrich Höricke before the couple divorced in 1999. She lived all over Europe before settling in north London with her second husband, Paul Sullivan.

The writer Julie Bindel, who interviewed Hite in 2011 and stayed in touch afterwards, told the Guardian she had been suffering from Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease.

Bindel said: “Her work was groundbreaking – in many ways she began the real sexual revolution for women in the 1970s after the abject failure of the so-called sexual revolution of the 1960s. In the 60s, women didn’t ever feel that they had the right to sexual pleasure. Shere Hite put women’s sexual pleasure first and foremost for the first time ever.

“She centred women’s experiences as opposed to seeing men as the default position and women as secondary. That really spoke to a lot of women about their own bodies, their own sexual liberation and sexual pleasure.”
A Friend
2020-09-10 18:54:14 UTC
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Post by That Derek
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/sep/10/she-began-the-real-sexual-revolu
tion-for-women-shere-hite-dies-aged-77
She began the real sexual revolution for women': Shere Hite dies aged 77
Reviled by Playboy, her 1976 study of 3,500 women challenged male assumptions about sex
Matthew Weaver
Thu 10 Sep 2020 12.30 EDT
The pioneering feminist Shere Hite, known for her research on female
A Nationwide Study of Female Sexuality, which has sold more than 50m copies
since publication in 1976.
Based on the views of 3,500 women
I got one of the questionnaires, and I was a 20-something male. Hite
made use of a mailing list from a lefty college press service, the name
of which I've long since forgotten, and sent questionnaires to a bunch
of college newspaper editors, all addressed to Editor. She was an
amateur.

Later she issued The Hite Report on Male Sexuality, a book as deeply
flawed as the first. She claimed to have included data from more than
7200 men. This book didn't get anything like the attention the first
one got, though.
Post by That Derek
While doing postgraduate research at Columbia University she posed nude
in an advert for an Olivetti typewriter in the early 1970s.
She posed nude a *lot*. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Cf. Google Images.
Lenona
2020-09-10 19:11:45 UTC
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Haven't read her books, though I certainly heard how she got criticized in her later years.

Bindel's comment about the 1960s reminded me of what I said in the Dr. Coutinho thread (of course, the following is about the 19th century):

I've heard that Susan B. Anthony WAS opposed to birth control in general, because, like most women of her time, she thought sex was something a decent married woman shouldn't - and couldn't - ENJOY, it was just a painful, embarrassing "wifely duty" for which the only reward was motherhood. Therefore, even though she herself apparently never wanted children, she felt birth control would only make things WORSE for women - because it would lead to unwanted sex for married women!)

(end of quotation)


It also reminds me, in a weird way, of how, even after the 1920s, it became more or less acceptable for women to smoke, but a certain double standard remained for women who DIDN'T smoke. That is, nonsmoking men weren't expected to marry women who smoked, but nonsmoking women weren't supposed to complain about suitors who did. Until, presumably, the anti-tobacco forces gained some real power in the 1970s - along with second-wave feminism.


Lenona.
A Friend
2020-09-10 19:31:04 UTC
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Post by Lenona
Haven't read her books, though I certainly heard how she got criticized in her later years.
Bindel's comment about the 1960s reminded me of what I said in the Dr.
I've heard that Susan B. Anthony WAS opposed to birth control in general,
because, like most women of her time, she thought sex was something a decent
married woman shouldn't - and couldn't - ENJOY, it was just a painful,
embarrassing "wifely duty" for which the only reward was motherhood.
Therefore, even though she herself apparently never wanted children, she felt
birth control would only make things WORSE for women - because it would lead
to unwanted sex for married women!)
(end of quotation)
It also reminds me, in a weird way, of how, even after the 1920s, it became
more or less acceptable for women to smoke, but a certain double standard
remained for women who DIDN'T smoke. That is, nonsmoking men weren't expected
to marry women who smoked, but nonsmoking women weren't supposed to complain
about suitors who did. Until, presumably, the anti-tobacco forces gained some
real power in the 1970s - along with second-wave feminism.
Lenona.
One of my favorite books of all time is a 1959 (?) thing called
American Catholic Etiquette. In it, smoking by women is not exactly
encouraged, but neither is it seen as impolite, especially as a lit
cigarette can be used as a weapon against an overly aggressive suitor.

BTW this same book discourages going to fancy restaurants because all
the white tablecloths will make the woman's date think of "the marriage
bed."
Lenona
2020-09-10 20:24:02 UTC
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According to one source, that book is from 1961. I wonder what the author thought of Victorian pantalettes for naked piano legs. (Not that I've ever seen a photo of those - so I don't know if they were real.)

In turn, it reminds me of another book - possibly a Catholic guide for parents. It was probably written before 1990. Can't remember exactly what it said, but the gist was that mothers who consider working for pay to protect themselves in the event of death, divorce or accidents are succumbing to social stereotypes and stereotypical thinking. HUH?
Post by A Friend
One of my favorite books of all time is a 1959 (?) thing called
American Catholic Etiquette. In it, smoking by women is not exactly
encouraged, but neither is it seen as impolite, especially as a lit
cigarette can be used as a weapon against an overly aggressive suitor.
BTW this same book discourages going to fancy restaurants because all
the white tablecloths will make the woman's date think of "the marriage
bed."
A Friend
2020-09-10 21:12:31 UTC
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Post by Lenona
According to one source, that book is from 1961. I wonder what the author
thought of Victorian pantalettes for naked piano legs. (Not that I've ever
seen a photo of those - so I don't know if they were real.)
They weren't.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/victorian-table-legs-covering-myth

BTW I recall an etiquette book from around the turn of the last century
that said books by male and female authors had to be on separate
shelves, unless the authors were married.
Post by Lenona
In turn, it reminds me of another book - possibly a Catholic guide for
parents. It was probably written before 1990. Can't remember exactly what it
said, but the gist was that mothers who consider working for pay to protect
themselves in the event of death, divorce or accidents are succumbing to
social stereotypes and stereotypical thinking. HUH?
Post by A Friend
One of my favorite books of all time is a 1959 (?) thing called
American Catholic Etiquette. In it, smoking by women is not exactly
encouraged, but neither is it seen as impolite, especially as a lit
cigarette can be used as a weapon against an overly aggressive suitor.
BTW this same book discourages going to fancy restaurants because all
the white tablecloths will make the woman's date think of "the marriage
bed."
That Derek
2020-09-10 21:16:50 UTC
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Post by A Friend
American Catholic Etiquette
A nun told our second grade class that it was a venial sin for a Roman Catholic to walk into a non-Catholic church and that, once inside, it escalated to a mortal sin if one knelt down and prayed.

While indoctrinating the same class for First Holy Communion class, the same nun brought up the concept of the sin of "waste," including the waste of food, the waste of paper, and the waste of time,

She instructed us all to close our eyes and to keep them closed until the time she would tell us to re-open them. While clocking away seconds on her watch, Sister would admonish "Keep them closed; I'll tell you when to re-open them." Upon completion of this exercise, she announced to about thirty students "You've all sinned! You've all wasted time!"

Warped.

P.S.: Said nun had a nervous breakdown and removed herself from teaching roughly four years later.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-09-10 21:40:12 UTC
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Post by That Derek
Post by A Friend
American Catholic Etiquette
A nun told our second grade class that it was a venial sin for a Roman
Catholic to walk into a non-Catholic church and that, once inside, it
escalated to a mortal sin if one knelt down and prayed.
While indoctrinating the same class for First Holy Communion class, the
same nun brought up the concept of the sin of "waste," including the
waste of food, the waste of paper, and the waste of time,
She instructed us all to close our eyes and to keep them closed until
the time she would tell us to re-open them. While clocking away seconds
on her watch, Sister would admonish "Keep them closed; I'll tell you
when to re-open them." Upon completion of this exercise, she announced
to about thirty students "You've all sinned! You've all wasted time!"
Warped.
P.S.: Said nun had a nervous breakdown and removed herself from teaching
roughly four years later.
I love scary stories told by Catholics. You're all just trying to
frighten the rest of us.
A Friend
2020-09-10 22:40:42 UTC
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Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by That Derek
Post by A Friend
American Catholic Etiquette
A nun told our second grade class that it was a venial sin for a Roman
Catholic to walk into a non-Catholic church and that, once inside, it
escalated to a mortal sin if one knelt down and prayed.
This was doctrine. One could not show support, financial or otherwise,
for another religion. I'm not sure when it escalated from venial to
mortal, but it was probably around the time I went with my
then-girlfriend to a Shabbos service. Hey, it was Reform.

Reminds me of the Catholic gentleman who was asked to contribute to the
building of a new Methodist church by his good friend, the pastor. He
could not contribute to the raising of a Methodist church, but he
reasoned that no one could object to him paying toward tearing one
down, so he wrote a nice check to the Demolition Fund.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by That Derek
While indoctrinating the same class for First Holy Communion class, the
same nun brought up the concept of the sin of "waste," including the
waste of food, the waste of paper, and the waste of time,
She instructed us all to close our eyes and to keep them closed until
the time she would tell us to re-open them. While clocking away seconds
on her watch, Sister would admonish "Keep them closed; I'll tell you
when to re-open them." Upon completion of this exercise, she announced
to about thirty students "You've all sinned! You've all wasted time!"
Warped.
P.S.: Said nun had a nervous breakdown and removed herself from teaching
roughly four years later.
I love scary stories told by Catholics. You're all just trying to
frighten the rest of us.
Nuns these days feel underappreciated, and they think we're all lying
or exaggerating when we tell these stories. These are only the
*eccentric* nuns. The vicious ones are another matter.

I live about twenty minutes from nun headquarters in Maryland, i.e. the
Seton complex. I have often contemplated the irony of that.
That Derek
2020-09-10 21:43:27 UTC
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Culturally, I consider myself Catholic; however, i think the Holy See would've thrown me out by now!
Adam H. Kerman
2020-09-10 21:44:10 UTC
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Post by That Derek
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/sep/10/she-began-the-real-sexual-revolution-for-women-shere-hite-dies-aged-77
She began the real sexual revolution for women': Shere Hite dies aged 77
Reviled by Playboy, her 1976 study of 3,500 women challenged male assumptions about sex
Matthew Weaver
Thu 10 Sep 2020 12.30 EDT
I never got the issue at all. If she isn't satisfied, what man would
deny her sex till he gets it right? As far as I'm concerrned, it
requires a lifetime of study, and practice makes perfect.
That Derek
2020-09-10 23:19:33 UTC
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He could not contribute to the raising of a Methodist church, but he
reasoned that no one could object to him paying toward tearing one
down, so he wrote a nice check to the Demolition Fund.

Raising vs. Razing?
A Friend
2020-09-11 01:47:46 UTC
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Post by A Friend
He could not contribute to the raising of a Methodist church, but he
reasoned that no one could object to him paying toward tearing one
down, so he wrote a nice check to the Demolition Fund.
Raising vs. Razing?
LOL
Lenona
2020-09-11 04:33:48 UTC
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You can read "American Catholic Etiquette" here, though maybe not every page:

https://isidore.co/calibre/get/pdf/3838/CalibreLibrary

I also found a review of the book - and it complains that the book is too liberal!! When was the review written, you ask?

2018.

http://reignofmary.blogspot.com/2018/07/echoes-of-feminism-in-american-catholic.html

Excerpt:

"In charity, we should assume that Fenner (whose two children were married at the time of publishing) didn't engage in career pursuits until after her children were grown. However, there is no proof of this. Owing to her other credentials mentioned in the note, such as graduating first in her college class and receiving a Pulitzer scholarship, it seems obvious that Fenner accepted the notion of 'Working mothers', and likely was one herself. Perhaps this apparent neglect of family life explains why obituary information for Mrs. Fenner cannot be found online."

Sheesh...I had little trouble finding her birth and death dates -

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/71530945/kathryn-fenner

- as well as her husband's (1902-1981). But if the reviewer meant an actual obituary, there doesn't seem to be one for EITHER spouse, and all it said under her name, in the career section of "Contemporary Authors", was "contributor to magazines." Chances are THAT'S why there's no obit for her.

After that, the reviewer condemns dating (as opposed to courting, which isn't supposed to begin until both young parties are prepared to get married, both age- and money-wise), working wives, and getting engaged before getting the bride's father's consent. With all that in mind, the implication is that a woman should not move out of her parents' home until she marries. Ha.

If you read the review, be sure to check out the five comments - especially the one from Amy. Very thoughtful.


Lenona.
Louis Epstein
2020-09-11 16:36:56 UTC
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Post by Lenona
https://isidore.co/calibre/get/pdf/3838/CalibreLibrary
I also found a review of the book - and it complains that the book is too liberal!! When was the review written, you ask?
2018.
http://reignofmary.blogspot.com/2018/07/echoes-of-feminism-in-american-catholic.html
"In charity, we should assume that Fenner (whose two children were married at the time of publishing) didn't engage in career pursuits until after her children were grown. However, there is no proof of this. Owing to her other
credentials mentioned in the note, such as graduating first in her college class and receiving a Pulitzer scholarship, it seems obvious that Fenner accepted the notion of 'Working mothers', and likely was one herself. Perhaps this
apparent neglect of family life explains why obituary information for Mrs. Fenner cannot be found online."
While career housewives are prolifically obituarized in all online sources?
Post by Lenona
Sheesh...I had little trouble finding her birth and death dates -
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/71530945/kathryn-fenner
- as well as her husband's (1902-1981). But if the reviewer meant an actual obituary, there doesn't seem to be one for EITHER spouse, and all it said under her name, in the career section of "Contemporary Authors", was "contributor to magazines." Chances are THAT'S why there's no obit for her.
After that, the reviewer condemns dating (as opposed to courting, which isn't supposed to begin until both young parties are prepared to get married, both age- and money-wise), working wives, and getting engaged before getting the bride's father's consent. With all that in mind, the implication is that a woman should not move out of her parents' home until she marries. Ha.
I once read a reference by a Jehovah's Witness to someone (I think the writer's sister
and her husband) being excommunicated for "sexual immorality within marriage" (the writer
sided with the congregation).Not sure just what that was about,but even after you get the
knot tied there can be big no-nos.
Post by Lenona
If you read the review, be sure to check out the five comments - especially the one from Amy. Very thoughtful.
Lenona.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
A Friend
2020-09-11 20:56:29 UTC
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Post by Lenona
https://isidore.co/calibre/get/pdf/3838/CalibreLibrary
I also found a review of the book - and it complains that the book is too
liberal!! When was the review written, you ask?
2018.
http://reignofmary.blogspot.com/2018/07/echoes-of-feminism-in-american-catholi
c.html
"In charity, we should assume that Fenner (whose two children were married at
the time of publishing) didn't engage in career pursuits until after her
children were grown. However, there is no proof of this. Owing to her other
credentials mentioned in the note, such as graduating first in her college
class and receiving a Pulitzer scholarship, it seems obvious that Fenner
accepted the notion of 'Working mothers', and likely was one herself. Perhaps
this apparent neglect of family life explains why obituary information for
Mrs. Fenner cannot be found online."
Sheesh...I had little trouble finding her birth and death dates -
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/71530945/kathryn-fenner
- as well as her husband's (1902-1981). But if the reviewer meant an actual
obituary, there doesn't seem to be one for EITHER spouse, and all it said
under her name, in the career section of "Contemporary Authors", was
"contributor to magazines." Chances are THAT'S why there's no obit for her.
After that, the reviewer condemns dating (as opposed to courting, which isn't
supposed to begin until both young parties are prepared to get married, both
age- and money-wise), working wives, and getting engaged before getting the
bride's father's consent. With all that in mind, the implication is that a
woman should not move out of her parents' home until she marries. Ha.
If you read the review, be sure to check out the five comments - especially the one from Amy. Very thoughtful.
Lenona.
First, thanks for all the material about American Catholic Etiquette.
The cover says it was a selection of the Thomas More Book Club, and my
parents subscribed to a (more generic, I guess) Catholic Book Club,
which also offered it. (One CBC selection is still a favorite of mine,
The Rise of Father Roland, by a priest named Doty. It's the only CBC
book I kept when we cleaned out my mother's place.)

As for Shere Hite, I finally remembered how I got on her mailing list.
I was editor of my college newspaper, and we subscribed to a thing
called Liberation News Service. It was a packet of 20 pages of lefty
stuff that came every week or two.

Lenona
2020-09-11 05:05:34 UTC
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Anyway, to get back to Hite:

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/24961.Shere_Hite

I checked the Goodreads reviews for "The Hite Report," and, interestingly, while there were many written reviews, there were only three truly negative ones - and those were suspiciously short, as if they didn't want to prove what they were claiming.

From one fan who gave it five stars:

"Hite's ideas for a better world pretty much line up with my own imaginary utopia, and this is reassuring. Perhaps in an indirect way it was this large survey which informed my own hopes, because I've read quite a few feminist books, and Hite was no doubt influential. Unfortunately though, it hasn't dated as much as it probably should have."
Lenona
2020-09-11 14:44:01 UTC
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And, from Amazon, in response to a two-star review:

"...this book told me what i want to know withOUT being too scientific. Before I married, it was required reading for anybody i had sex with. Maybe not science, but TRUTH, certainly."
Adam H. Kerman
2020-09-11 18:19:36 UTC
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Post by Lenona
"...this book told me what i want to know withOUT being too scientific.
Before I married, it was required reading for anybody i had sex with.
Maybe not science, but TRUTH, certainly."
Lady, if reading was required by your lovers (before you were married)
before the two of you had sex for the first time, you're both approaching
sex with the wrong attitude. You're having sex because you DON'T want to
do your homework during the tutoring session! If you wanted to do your
homework in the first place, the tutor wouldn't be there!

Were you holding the book during? "Honey, did you see this graph on page
42?" Never mind.
Lenona
2020-09-11 20:44:22 UTC
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Well, it's possible, at least, that she didn't mean that literally. As in: "I expected him to be more or less familiar with the principles of the book and to RESPECT them, even if he hadn't read it."

And when it comes to the other reviewer who said the book wasn't that dated, that makes sense, unfortunately. Why? Because, due to mainstream online porn, a lot of boys grow up with no real understanding of the importance of gentleness in sex - or anything else that involves communication, mutuality, or kindness - as in, remembering what pleases one partner may not please the other, contrary to what one sees in porn.

Lenona.
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