Discussion:
Horrific Building Collapse in Miami Beach
(too old to reply)
ansaman
2021-06-24 08:36:12 UTC
Permalink
https://twitter.com/UncleWilberfor1/status/1407980268271587333
--
The most polite way to imply that someone
may be lying according to Elizabeth II:
"recollections may vary" EPIC!
Love
2021-06-24 11:52:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansaman
https://twitter.com/UncleWilberfor1/status/1407980268271587333
I still can't find any reports of fatalities.

How can an apartment building collapse in the
night and not be the news item of the day
worldwide, or, apparently, do so without
anyone dying? Were they all out at clubs?
--
Love
(On even-numbered days, he/her/its.
On odd-numbered days, she/him/thems.
Alternatively, use normal English
terms appropriate to my sex.)
Julian
2021-06-24 11:59:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Love
Post by ansaman
https://twitter.com/UncleWilberfor1/status/1407980268271587333
I still can't find any reports of fatalities.
How can an apartment building collapse in the
night and not be the news item of the day
worldwide, or, apparently, do so without
anyone dying? Were they all out at clubs?
One death and perhaps a dozen casualties were
reported in the UK this morning.

The BBC has finally got the story.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57592827
Adam H. Kerman
2021-06-24 13:23:31 UTC
Permalink
I've cut the crosspost.
Post by Julian
Post by Love
Post by ansaman
https://twitter.com/UncleWilberfor1/status/1407980268271587333
I still can't find any reports of fatalities.
How can an apartment building collapse in the
night and not be the news item of the day
worldwide, or, apparently, do so without
anyone dying? Were they all out at clubs?
One death and perhaps a dozen casualties were
reported in the UK this morning.
The BBC has finally got the story.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57592827
Here's the story in the Orlando Sun-Sentinel:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/miami-dade/fl-ne-building-collapse-miami-beach-surfside-20210624-ekza4wiszndd3ivfq2n2nqcuou-photogallery.html

It's Surfside, near Miami Beach, not in Miami Beach, btw.

The Miami Herald story says there is one known fatality thus far.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252324218.html

That makes it on topic.
Louis Epstein
2021-06-24 23:25:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
I've cut the crosspost.
Post by Julian
Post by Love
Post by ansaman
https://twitter.com/UncleWilberfor1/status/1407980268271587333
I still can't find any reports of fatalities.
How can an apartment building collapse in the
night and not be the news item of the day
worldwide, or, apparently, do so without
anyone dying? Were they all out at clubs?
One death and perhaps a dozen casualties were
reported in the UK this morning.
The BBC has finally got the story.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57592827
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/miami-dade/fl-ne-building-collapse-miami-beach-surfside-20210624-ekza4wiszndd3ivfq2n2nqcuou-photogallery.html
It's Surfside, near Miami Beach, not in Miami Beach, btw.
It's easy to confuse them,since the street numbers and avenues
continue north from Miami Beach,the signs just have "Surfside"
added to the top.(My grandmother used to have an apartment blocks
from Surfside in northern MB).The numbering and avenues continue
northward through Bal Harbour.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The Miami Herald story says there is one known fatality thus far.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252324218.html
That makes it on topic.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
A Friend
2021-06-25 01:51:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Adam H. Kerman
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/miami-dade/fl-ne-building-collapse-miami-
beach-surfside-20210624-ekza4wiszndd3ivfq2n2nqcuou-photogallery.html
It's Surfside, near Miami Beach, not in Miami Beach, btw.
It's easy to confuse them,since the street numbers and avenues
continue north from Miami Beach,the signs just have "Surfside"
added to the top.(My grandmother used to have an apartment blocks
from Surfside in northern MB).The numbering and avenues continue
northward through Bal Harbour.
There's an old TV series, Surfside 6, which was one of the
cookie-cutter Warner Bros. detective shows of the early 1960s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_6

Surfside 6 was a street address. It had a slightly memorable theme
song, if only because of two lines.
Louis Epstein
2021-06-25 15:42:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Adam H. Kerman
I've cut the crosspost.
Post by Julian
Post by Love
Post by ansaman
https://twitter.com/UncleWilberfor1/status/1407980268271587333
I still can't find any reports of fatalities.
How can an apartment building collapse in the
night and not be the news item of the day
worldwide, or, apparently, do so without
anyone dying? Were they all out at clubs?
One death and perhaps a dozen casualties were
reported in the UK this morning.
The BBC has finally got the story.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57592827
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/miami-dade/fl-ne-building-collapse-miami-beach-surfside-20210624-ekza4wiszndd3ivfq2n2nqcuou-photogallery.html
It's Surfside, near Miami Beach, not in Miami Beach, btw.
It's easy to confuse them,since the street numbers and avenues
continue north from Miami Beach,the signs just have "Surfside"
added to the top.(My grandmother used to have an apartment blocks
from Surfside in northern MB).The numbering and avenues continue
northward through Bal Harbour.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The Miami Herald story says there is one known fatality thus far.
Now 4 dead and 159 missing.(Top story on Google News).
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Adam H. Kerman
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252324218.html
That makes it on topic.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Louis Epstein
2021-07-09 22:41:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Adam H. Kerman
I've cut the crosspost.
Post by Julian
Post by Love
Post by ansaman
https://twitter.com/UncleWilberfor1/status/1407980268271587333
I still can't find any reports of fatalities.
How can an apartment building collapse in the
night and not be the news item of the day
worldwide, or, apparently, do so without
anyone dying? Were they all out at clubs?
One death and perhaps a dozen casualties were
reported in the UK this morning.
The BBC has finally got the story.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57592827
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/miami-dade/fl-ne-building-collapse-miami-beach-surfside-20210624-ekza4wiszndd3ivfq2n2nqcuou-photogallery.html
It's Surfside, near Miami Beach, not in Miami Beach, btw.
It's easy to confuse them,since the street numbers and avenues
continue north from Miami Beach,the signs just have "Surfside"
added to the top.(My grandmother used to have an apartment blocks
from Surfside in northern MB).The numbering and avenues continue
northward through Bal Harbour.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The Miami Herald story says there is one known fatality thus far.
Now 4 dead and 159 missing.(Top story on Google News).
It's moved down the Google News page but today's confirmed
death toll is up to 79.
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Adam H. Kerman
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252324218.html
That makes it on topic.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Larc
2021-07-10 02:57:41 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 22:41:13 -0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein <***@top.put.com> wrote:

| It's moved down the Google News page but today's confirmed
| death toll is up to 79.

And this number will unfortunately grow. Not only is it practically impossible that
any further survivors will be found, it's almost unbelievable there were any in the
rubble on that first night. 15-year-old Jonah Handler, who was found just after the
collapse with relatively minor injuries, lived with his mother on the 10th floor. If
surviving that fall when such things as refrigerators and ranges were reduced to
small chunks wasn't miraculous, I don't know what it would take to qualify.

Larc
Kenny McCormack
2021-07-10 12:25:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larc
| It's moved down the Google News page but today's confirmed
| death toll is up to 79.
And this number will unfortunately grow.
Well, keep in mind that it can't go down. I.e., none of the dead are
likely to be resurrected. As it is unlikely to just stay the same, it can
only go up.
--
BigBusiness types (aka, Republicans/Conservatives/Independents/Liberatarians/whatevers)
don't hate big government. They *love* big government as a means for them to get
rich, sucking off the public teat. What they don't like is *democracy* - you know,
like people actually having the right to vote and stuff like that.
Terry del Fuego
2021-07-12 13:14:38 UTC
Permalink
<https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/florida/os-ne-florida-legislature-collecting-condo-fees-allocating-money-general-fund-20210709-rrkmrnfbkzantekhlguyo7hn6a-story.html>

Florida Legislature has been collecting condo fees and allocating
money into general fund: report
By GARFIELD HYLTON
ORLANDO SENTINEL |
JUL 09, 2021 AT 3:25 PM

A new report details how the state Legislature takes condo owners’
associations fees and sweeps them into a general fund.

In 2020, condominium owners associations, vacation timeshares, and
mobile home parks paid $13.7 million in fees, but legislators kept $5
million in the state’s general fund, according to The Daytona Beach
News-Journal.

The money was supposed to be used for various situations like training
condo associations about subjects like maintenance, investigating
complaints by condo owners, and teaching board members their
responsibilities as stewards of their buildings.

Instead, fees filled holes in the state budget, particularly during
times of economic downturn.

Since 2008, the state Legislature took $65 million, roughly 40% of the
$167 million raised by those associate fees, according to The
News-Journal.

The actions are coming to light after the June 24 collapse of the
Surfside condo in Miami-Dade County.

As questions arise regarding the responsibility a building’s
homeowners association board played in the disaster, experts believe
timely repairs could’ve made a difference in the collapse.

"I don’t know if it would have averted the collapse because we still
don’t know all the factors, but had they repaired the building
properly, it would have been stronger," Joel Figeuroa-Vallines, an
Orlando-based structural engineering consultant who is also a fellow
with the American Society of Civil Engineers, told The News-Journal.

Florida contains more than 1.5 million condo units, many built in the
‘60s, ‘70s, and ‘80s.

The state has more condo units than any other in America.

Read the full report on news-journalonline.com.

--
All birth is abuse.

Louis Epstein
2021-07-10 17:56:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larc
| It's moved down the Google News page but today's confirmed
| death toll is up to 79.
And this number will unfortunately grow.
Today it's 86.
Post by Larc
Not only is it practically impossible that
any further survivors will be found, it's almost unbelievable there were any in the
rubble on that first night. 15-year-old Jonah Handler, who was found just after the
collapse with relatively minor injuries, lived with his mother on the 10th floor.
If surviving that fall when such things as refrigerators and ranges were reduced
to small chunks wasn't miraculous, I don't know what it would take to qualify.
Larc
A ninth-floor feline survivor was spotted just recently and reunited
with cohabiting humans,but has not elaborated on the details of survival.
https://nypost.com/2021/07/09/cat-missing-in-florida-condo-collapse-found-alive/
https://nypost.com/2021/07/05/deven-gonzalez-haunted-by-nightmares-after-condo-rescue/
tells of the family.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Larc
2021-07-11 14:06:04 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 17:56:23 -0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein <***@top.put.com> wrote:

| A ninth-floor feline survivor was spotted just recently and reunited
| with cohabiting humans,but has not elaborated on the details of survival.
| https://nypost.com/2021/07/09/cat-missing-in-florida-condo-collapse-found-alive/
| https://nypost.com/2021/07/05/deven-gonzalez-haunted-by-nightmares-after-condo-rescue/
| tells of the family.

Cats have a way of sensing when something is wrong before humans can. Binx was
probably one of the first to leave the building.

Larc
Louis Epstein
2021-07-11 17:51:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larc
| A ninth-floor feline survivor was spotted just recently and reunited
| with cohabiting humans,but has not elaborated on the details of survival.
| https://nypost.com/2021/07/09/cat-missing-in-florida-condo-collapse-found-alive/
| https://nypost.com/2021/07/05/deven-gonzalez-haunted-by-nightmares-after-condo-rescue/
| tells of the family.
Cats have a way of sensing when something is wrong before humans can. Binx was
probably one of the first to leave the building.
They are not very capable of opening human-designed doors,so it may have
taken an opening crack to provide an escape route.

Toll now 90 dead,71 of them identified,31 others "potentially unaccounted for":

https://cnn.com/2021/07/11/us/miami-dade-building-collapse-sunday/index.html

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Love
2021-06-25 12:50:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian
Post by Love
Post by ansaman
https://twitter.com/UncleWilberfor1/status/1407980268271587333
I still can't find any reports of fatalities.
How can an apartment building collapse in the
night and not be the news item of the day
worldwide, or, apparently, do so without
anyone dying? Were they all out at clubs?
One death and perhaps a dozen casualties were
reported in the UK this morning.
The BBC has finally got the story.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57592827
Who says the Empire is over!?
--
Love
(On even-numbered days, he/her/its.
On odd-numbered days, she/him/thems.
Alternatively, use normal English
terms appropriate to my sex.)
ansaman
2021-06-24 12:16:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Love
Post by ansaman
https://twitter.com/UncleWilberfor1/status/1407980268271587333
I still can't find any reports of fatalities.
How can an apartment building collapse in the
night and not be the news item of the day
worldwide, or, apparently, do so without
anyone dying? Were they all out at clubs?
They have either been evacuated or are under
rubble, dead as a box of rocks. They have
not even brought in heavy equipment. There
are fears the rest of the building could
come down.

It dropped *nearly straight down* and NOW the
word is that they were working on the roof and
a crane had been used to move a large amount
of roofing material and equipment on top of
the building. The collapse could have started
on the top floor and progressed with the impact
of each floor(s) upon the lower floors.
It reminds me of:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Mississippi_River_bridge

"At the time of the collapse, four of the eight lanes
were closed for resurfacing, and there were 575,000 pounds
(261 tons) of construction supplies and equipment on
the bridge."

We are talking about pallets of materials that weigh
a ton a piece and equipment to move and heat tar and
gravel and all that stuff, but I am indeed speculating.
A building that stands for over 40 years without
incident and then falls during a maintenance job
prompts Occam's Razor to start cutting there.

It is indeed now an international story.
--
The most polite way to imply that someone
may be lying according to Elizabeth II:
"recollections may vary" EPIC!
Terry del Fuego
2021-06-24 18:45:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansaman
It dropped *nearly straight down* and NOW the
word is that they were working on the roof and
a crane had been used to move a large amount
of roofing material and equipment on top of
the building. The collapse could have started
on the top floor and progressed with the impact
of each floor(s) upon the lower floors.
I'd put the chances at close to 100% that someone questioned the
wisdom of doing this, but the boss got a faraway look in its eye and
softly chanted "Don't worry, it'll be fine."

Optimism is murder.
Terry del Fuego
2021-06-27 19:50:09 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 11:45:57 -0700, Terry del Fuego
Post by Terry del Fuego
Optimism is murder.
"This sort of thing has cropped up before and it has always been due
to human error."

<https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-27/before-building-collapse-9-million-in-repairs-needed>

Before Building Collapse, $9 Million in Repairs Needed
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS (CURT ANDERSON and BERNARD CONDON)
June 27, 2021, 5:22 AM PDT Updated on June 27, 2021, 5:45 AM PDT

St. Petersburg, Fla. (AP) -- Nearly three years before an oceanfront
building collapsed near Miami, an engineering firm estimated that
major repairs the building needed would cost more than $9 million,
according to newly released emails.

The email from the firm of Morabito Consultants was among a series of
documents released by the city of Surfside as rescue efforts continued
at the site of the collapsed building, where more than 150 people
remained unaccounted for. At least five people were killed in the
collapse.

The release of the 2018 cost estimate followed the earlier publication
of another document from the firm showing the ground-floor pool deck
of the building was resting on a concrete slab that had "major
structural damage" and needed to be extensively repaired. That report
also uncovered "abundant cracking and spalling" of concrete columns,
beams and walls in the parking garage.

The cost estimate showed that repairs across the entire building would
cost more than $9.1 million, with the cost of work at the garage,
entrance and pool deck alone accounting for more than $3.8 million.
The work had not been done by the time the building collapsed.

The earlier report said the waterproofing under the pool deck had
failed and had been improperly laid flat instead of sloped, preventing
water from draining off.

"The failed waterproofing is causing major structural damage to the
concrete structural slab below these areas. Failure to replace the
waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete
deterioration to expand exponentially," the report said.

The firm recommended that the damaged slabs be replaced in what would
be a major repair.

Some of the damage to the concrete in the parking garage was minor,
while other columns had exposed and deteriorating rebar. It also noted
that many of the building’s previous attempts to fix the columns and
other damage with epoxy were marred by poor workmanship and were
failing.

Beneath the pool deck "where the slab had been epoxy-injected, new
cracks were radiating from the originally repaired cracks," the report
said.

These were all problems that should have been dealt with quickly, said
Gregg Schlesinger, an attorney specializing in construction defects
and a former construction project engineer.

"The building speaks to us. It is telling us we have a serious
problem," Schlesinger said in a telephone interview Saturday about the
new documents. "They (building managers) kicked the can down the road.
The maintenance was improper. These were all red flags that needed to
be addressed. They weren’t."

In a statement Saturday, Morabito Consultants confirmed its report
"detailed significant cracks and breaks in the concrete, which
required repairs to ensure the safety of the residents and the
public."

The firm said it was hired again in June 2020 by Champlain Towers
South to begin the 40-year recertification process that would detail
what work needed to be done.

"At the time of the building collapse, roof repairs were under way,
but concrete restoration had not yet begun," the statement said.

Abi Aghayere, a Drexel University engineering researcher, said the
extent of the damage shown in the engineering report was notable. In
addition to possible problems under the pool, he said several areas
above the entrance drive showing signs of deterioration were worrisome
and should have been repaired immediately.

"Were the supporting members deteriorated to the extent that a
critical structural element or their connections failed leading to
progressive collapse?" he wrote in an email to the AP after reviewing
the report. "Were there other areas in the structure that were badly
deteriorated and unnoticed?"

The building was in the midst of its 40-year recertification process,
which requires detailed structural and electrical inspections. In an
interview Friday, Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett said he wasn’t sure
if the inspection had been completed, but he said it may contain vital
clues.

"It should have been a very straightforward thing," Burkett said.
"Buildings in America do not just fall down like this. There is a
reason. We need to find out what that reason is."

The 12-story tower’s collapse Thursday morning has also raised
questions over whether other similar buildings are in danger.

"This is a wake-up call for folks on the beach," Schlesinger said.
"The scary portion is the other buildings. You think this is unique?
No."

Details of the building’s 40-year recertification inspection will be
made public once they are completed, Surfside Town Clerk Sandra
McCready said in an email.

The collapse is already drawing lawsuits, including one filed hours
after the collapse by attorney Brad Sohn against the condo’s
homeowners association seeking damages for negligence and other
reasons for all of the tower’s residents.

The association, the lawsuit contends, "could have prevented the
collapse of Champlain Towers South through the exercise of ordinary
care, safety measures and oversight."

An attorney for the association, Ken Direktor, did not respond to an
email requesting comment.
Louis Epstein
2021-07-04 18:32:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terry del Fuego
Post by ansaman
It dropped *nearly straight down* and NOW the
word is that they were working on the roof and
a crane had been used to move a large amount
of roofing material and equipment on top of
the building. The collapse could have started
on the top floor and progressed with the impact
of each floor(s) upon the lower floors.
I'd put the chances at close to 100% that someone questioned the
wisdom of doing this, but the boss got a faraway look in its eye and
softly chanted "Don't worry, it'll be fine."
Optimism is murder.
Building management and municipal authorities are accusing each
other of ignoring the urgency of the repairs they were trying to
arrange/authorize.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Adam H. Kerman
2021-07-04 20:23:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Terry del Fuego
Post by ansaman
It dropped *nearly straight down* and NOW the
word is that they were working on the roof and
a crane had been used to move a large amount
of roofing material and equipment on top of
the building. The collapse could have started
on the top floor and progressed with the impact
of each floor(s) upon the lower floors.
I'd put the chances at close to 100% that someone questioned the
wisdom of doing this, but the boss got a faraway look in its eye and
softly chanted "Don't worry, it'll be fine."
Optimism is murder.
Building management and municipal authorities are accusing each
other of ignoring the urgency of the repairs they were trying to
arrange/authorize.
Well, golly gosh, now with 20-20 hindsight it's perfectly obvious. I guess
if I were a long-time resident, maybe I would have seriously questioned
the wisdom of putting over $15 million into the building and argued
for demolition.
Larc
2021-07-05 13:21:21 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 20:23:22 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <***@chinet.com> wrote:

| >Building management and municipal authorities are accusing each
| >other of ignoring the urgency of the repairs they were trying to
| >arrange/authorize.
|
| Well, golly gosh, now with 20-20 hindsight it's perfectly obvious. I guess
| if I were a long-time resident, maybe I would have seriously questioned
| the wisdom of putting over $15 million into the building and argued
| for demolition.

I doubt that many residents who had paid high prices for their units would have
agreed. My questions would have centered more around the original design and
construction that enabled things to get into such a state. But evidence of poor
construction may not be as easy to find now that the remainder of the building has
been brought down.

Larc
Adam H. Kerman
2021-07-05 14:50:12 UTC
Permalink
Please don't use noncoventional quote level indicators.

As you retained a quote, that would be someone else's words, you MUST
retain the attribution line.
Post by Larc
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
Building management and municipal authorities are accusing each
other of ignoring the urgency of the repairs they were trying to
arrange/authorize.
Well, golly gosh, now with 20-20 hindsight it's perfectly obvious. I guess
if I were a long-time resident, maybe I would have seriously questioned
the wisdom of putting over $15 million into the building and argued
for demolition.
I doubt that many residents who had paid high prices for their units
would have agreed.
They DID decide it was not worth spending the money in 2018. By waiting,
there was further deterioration to correct and the project had become
much more expensive. However, I suspect that the roof repair would have
been done around this time regardless. They didn't start to give consent
to the project till this year.

Repairs are for the duration of the building for the next set of
apartment owners, not the current people. Repairs don't raise land
value. It's just monies that must be spent if the structure is still
going to stand.

As a business decision, they might have been better off to agree to
demolition in lieu of repairs. These building have limited duration even
if built to known quality construction standards of their era, which
this one certainly wasn't.

Thing is, deciding to have done nothing after receiving the 2018
engineering report was the worst possible choice. That's not 20-20
hindsight. I'm objecting to choosing willful blindness.
Post by Larc
My questions would have centered more around the original design and
construction that enabled things to get into such a state.
Ok. That's an interesting aspect to explore for an object bad lesson but
there's no practical way to recover damages. Besides, at least 150
people have died and there's no way to mitigate that loss.
Post by Larc
But evidence of poor construction may not be as easy to find now that
the remainder of the building has been brought down.
There was some evidence of poor construction from the 2018 report, which
discussed the incompetent way the pool deck was sealed as the water
runoff went in the wrong direction. I think the pool was at the top of
at least a portion of the parking structure, so that must have
contributed to deterioration of support columns there.

Regardless, I couldn't believe those media interviews of survivors who
bought their units after the 2018 report was issued, knowing how much
serious deterioration was observed at the time. Much of the proposed
repairs were to mitigate deterioration that was visible to the naked
eye. I would have fled screaming.
John M.
2021-07-05 18:42:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larc
| >Building management and municipal authorities are accusing each
| >other of ignoring the urgency of the repairs they were trying to
| >arrange/authorize.
|
| Well, golly gosh, now with 20-20 hindsight it's perfectly obvious. I guess
| if I were a long-time resident, maybe I would have seriously questioned
| the wisdom of putting over $15 million into the building and argued
| for demolition.
I doubt that many residents who had paid high prices for their units would have
agreed. My questions would have centered more around the original design and
construction that enabled things to get into such a state. But evidence of poor
construction may not be as easy to find now that the remainder of the building has
been brought down.
Larc
There's another building of the same design about 1/10th of a mile
north of where the collapsed one stood so they can take a look at it.
At least from Google Earth, the one remaining looks as if it's in
better repair.

25°, 53', 22.64 N
80°, 07", 15.21" W

Just north of North Shore Open Space Park in Surfside.

John
Louis Epstein
2021-07-09 22:37:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by John M.
Post by Larc
| >Building management and municipal authorities are accusing each
| >other of ignoring the urgency of the repairs they were trying to
| >arrange/authorize.
|
| Well, golly gosh, now with 20-20 hindsight it's perfectly obvious. I guess
| if I were a long-time resident, maybe I would have seriously questioned
| the wisdom of putting over $15 million into the building and argued
| for demolition.
I doubt that many residents who had paid high prices for their units would have
agreed. My questions would have centered more around the original design and
construction that enabled things to get into such a state. But evidence of poor
construction may not be as easy to find now that the remainder of the building has
been brought down.
Larc
There's another building of the same design about 1/10th of a mile
north of where the collapsed one stood so they can take a look at it.
At least from Google Earth, the one remaining looks as if it's in
better repair.
25?, 53', 22.64 N
80?, 07", 15.21" W
Just north of North Shore Open Space Park in Surfside.
John
Champlain Towers South,which collapsed,had subsidence found underneath
in the 1990s that was not observed in nearby sites like Champlain Towers
North.I imagine the design can hold up better on some soils than others.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Louis Epstein
2021-07-09 22:35:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Terry del Fuego
Post by ansaman
It dropped *nearly straight down* and NOW the
word is that they were working on the roof and
a crane had been used to move a large amount
of roofing material and equipment on top of
the building. The collapse could have started
on the top floor and progressed with the impact
of each floor(s) upon the lower floors.
I'd put the chances at close to 100% that someone questioned the
wisdom of doing this, but the boss got a faraway look in its eye and
softly chanted "Don't worry, it'll be fine."
Optimism is murder.
Building management and municipal authorities are accusing each
other of ignoring the urgency of the repairs they were trying to
arrange/authorize.
Well, golly gosh, now with 20-20 hindsight it's perfectly obvious. I guess
if I were a long-time resident, maybe I would have seriously questioned
the wisdom of putting over $15 million into the building and argued
for demolition.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/561278-consultants-found-extensive-concrete-deterioratio-at-surfside-building
https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-miami-area-condo-collapse/2021/07/08/1013457966/officials-not-notified-of-severe-deterioration-before-surfside-condo-collapse

Are the residents protected against the risk of demolition?
The 40-year-recertification the building was undergoing would seem
likely to be something that insurance would require them to pass to
stay covered.But I expect there to be resistance to any spending
just the same,so people who wanted to hold onto their condo board
seats would tell themselves downplaying the risk was OK.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Bermuda999
2021-06-24 20:12:28 UTC
Permalink
The video of the building collapsing is certainly horrific

https://twitter.com/i/status/1408054046808805379
Louis Epstein
2021-07-09 22:52:00 UTC
Permalink
This article has photos and capsule bios of a number of victims:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9767729/Tears-prayers-mark-end-search-Miami-condo-survivors.html

The Epsteins included are not related to me.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
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