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Halyna Hutchins, cinematographer, 42
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radioacti...@gmail.com
2021-10-22 09:09:25 UTC
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Early reports make it sure look like legendary showbiz bad boy Alec Baldwin was here a victim of unfortunate circumstance; the late lady Hutchins, born Ukrainian, seems clearly a victim of some sort.

Joel Souza, the director of "Rust" on location in New Mexico near Santa Fe, was also wounded in the on-set incident on Thursday.

BRYAN STYBLE/Florida
===================================================
https://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/sheriffs-office-alec-baldwins-prop-firearm-kills-one-injures-another/article_9612afc6-32c5-11ec-9e2e-e3cc47b69ce5.html
Topic Cop
2021-10-22 13:43:19 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Early reports make it sure look like legendary showbiz bad boy Alec Baldwin was here a victim of unfortunate circumstance; the late lady Hutchins, born Ukrainian, seems clearly a victim of some sort.
Joel Souza, the director of "Rust" on location in New Mexico near Santa Fe, was also wounded in the on-set incident on Thursday.
BRYAN STYBLE/Florida
===================================================
https://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/sheriffs-office-alec-baldwins-prop-firearm-kills-one-injures-another/article_9612afc6-32c5-11ec-9e2e-e3cc47b69ce5.html
This seems to happen every once in awhile.

I think we need stronger gun laws. Or at least stricter rules on movie sets.
Adam H. Kerman
2021-10-22 14:35:37 UTC
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Post by Topic Cop
Post by ***@gmail.com
Early reports make it sure look like legendary showbiz bad boy Alec Baldwin was here a victim of unfortunate circumstance; the late lady Hutchins, born Ukrainian, seems clearly a victim of some sort.
Joel Souza, the director of "Rust" on location in New Mexico near Santa Fe, was also wounded in the on-set incident on Thursday.
BRYAN STYBLE/Florida
https://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/sheriffs-office-alec-baldwins-prop-firearm-kills-one-injures-another/article_9612afc6-32c5-11ec-9e2e-e3cc47b69ce5.html
This seems to happen every once in awhile.
I think we need stronger gun laws. Or at least stricter rules on movie sets.
There are extremely strict rules on movie sets, which is why this
happens decades apart. It's just that Baldwin violated every one of
them. I can say that because he wasn't just the star but the producer.

As I said in another newsgroup, I was appalled to learn that this wasn't
another actor during production, but it was the D.P. and the
director/writer between takes. Baldwin shouldn't have even had the gun.

Actors are stupid. Actors are not sober. Actors are very stupid when
sober and not sober. Therefore, all guns are to be in control of the
armorer on set at all times during breaks in production. They are not to
be held by actors except during scenes. A prop gun, even if loaded with
blanks, is still a gun and is to be treated like a gun. It's not to be
aimed at another person. The actor holding the gun isn't to put his
finger on the trigger when not discharging it.

Actors are not allowed to load or unload their weapons. That's the
armorer's job. The armorer is responsible for putting live ammunition
instead of blanks, but everyone knows that deadly mistakes can be made
which is why you don't play around with guns even if you believe they
are loaded with blanks.

It's still Baldwin's responsibility for aiming and pulling the trigger.
And it's still Baldwin's responsibility for supervising the armorer as
producer.

The movie was a western set in the 1880s about the accidentally shooting
and death of a rancher.
radioacti...@gmail.com
2021-10-22 17:48:21 UTC
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Thanks a bundle for enlightening me with your detailed breakdown of the armorer's on-set role, Sir Kerman, completely obliterating my first-impression exoneration of Baldwin.

Didn't realize Baldwin is helming the production as well. You've argued a strong case for Baldwin bearing some serious responsibility for this.

And in the process, Adam, you've fortified my own long-held position that executive producers seriously risk the capital they've amassed for a given project whenever they succumb to oft-endured requests--or demands--by stars infected by that dreaded But-I-REALLY-want-to-DIRECT! virus* so widespread in The Business**, a pathogen for which no one seems to be developing any vaccination, rushed-through-trials or otherwise.

STYBLE/Floirida
________________________________
* Or a less-common germ contracted by actors whose reasoning is also impeded by the Dunning-Kruger effect, the But-I-REALLY-want-to-PRODUCE! bug.
** Not merely an UNUSUAL industry, but a downright UNIQUE commercial field to which NO other business anywhere is akin, as the late-and-so-great Irving Berlin so wonderfully reminds us lyrically--a truism proffered originally on Broadway in the showstopper tune from "Alec Get Your Gun".***
*** I may not be correctly remembering that hit musical's title.
Raul TW
2021-10-22 18:26:24 UTC
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Two inexcusable issues here:

(1) The Hollywood fixation on authenticity such that a real gun capable firing a blank or round is required on set. Use toy guns. They look real. Ask cops. They shoot at people holding toy guns all the time.

(2) Baldwin has been acting for 60 years. He is well aware that blanks can injure. No need to be pulling the trigger. At a rehearsal no less. Reckless and stupid.

Hopefully the police tested Baldwin for alcohol and drugs.
radioacti...@gmail.com
2021-10-22 19:28:04 UTC
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The Las Vegas-based columnist Roger Friedman says the inevitable civil lawsuits to emerge from this incident have effectively made the production of "Rust" every bit as D.O.A. as its unfortunate cinematographer.

STYBLE/Florida
Raul TW
2021-10-22 20:00:08 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
The Las Vegas-based columnist Roger Friedman says the inevitable civil
lawsuits to emerge from this incident have effectively made the production of
"Rust" every bit as D.O.A. as its unfortunate cinematographer.
It is disturbing that a Western?!?! with Baldwin is even being made. Who watches this garbage? Would not be surprised if Baldwin went ahead and completed this lame film because "that is what she would have wanted"...
OTOH, who wants to sit thru a film with Baldwin knowing that he killed somebody during the filming of it.
Travoltron
2021-10-22 20:37:22 UTC
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Post by Raul TW
who wants to sit thru a film with Baldwin knowing that he killed somebody during the filming of it.
I remember I went to see The Crow in high school. The people that made
the movie kept saying that "Brandon would've wanted you to see it" and
that assuaged any guilt I might have had.

Now I know that I was just a dumb kid that got played for a sap. I wish
that I had never given them a dime.
Raul TW
2021-10-22 21:39:14 UTC
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Post by Travoltron
Post by Raul TW
who wants to sit thru a film with Baldwin knowing that he killed somebody during the filming of it.
I remember I went to see The Crow in high school. The people that made
the movie kept saying that "Brandon would've wanted you to see it" and
that assuaged any guilt I might have had.
Now I know that I was just a dumb kid that got played for a sap. I wish
that I had never given them a dime.
The Crow was quite a good film.Enjoyed it. Lee was a victim but still benefits from the film's box office . In this case the reckless negligent star is alive and well. Very different scenario.

Even if this incident had never happened the notion of going to see Baldwin in a Western is cringeworthy.
Louis Epstein
2021-10-24 05:31:50 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
The Las Vegas-based columnist Roger Friedman says the inevitable civil lawsuits to emerge from this incident have effectively made the production of "Rust" every bit as D.O.A. as its unfortunate cinematographer.
STYBLE/Florida
Looking at the news coverage,the armorer got the job because
her father has experience at it and has had a spotty record;
she handed the gun to the First AD
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002577/
who has assistant-directing credits going back before she was born,
who said "cold gun" (meaning it did NOT have the live ammo it DID have)
and handed it to Baldwin.
https://meaww.com/dave-halls-assistant-director-rust-brought-live-gun-alec-baldwin-safe-for-use-halyna-hutchins

I don't know who'll be prosecuted or how badly their careers
will be affected.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Louis Epstein
2021-10-24 05:35:57 UTC
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Post by Louis Epstein
Post by ***@gmail.com
The Las Vegas-based columnist Roger Friedman says the inevitable civil lawsuits to emerge from this incident have effectively made the production of "Rust" every bit as D.O.A. as its unfortunate cinematographer.
STYBLE/Florida
Looking at the news coverage,the armorer got the job because
her father has experience at it and has had a spotty record;
she handed the gun to the First AD
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002577/
who has assistant-directing credits going back before she was born,
Looking further,Google points to a LinkedIn profile for him that
has been taken down,and the IMDb link actually mentions he had a
rare small acting role in Rust...as an undertaker.
Post by Louis Epstein
who said "cold gun" (meaning it did NOT have the live ammo it DID have)
and handed it to Baldwin.
https://meaww.com/dave-halls-assistant-director-rust-brought-live-gun-alec-baldwin-safe-for-use-halyna-hutchins
I don't know who'll be prosecuted or how badly their careers
will be affected.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Louis Epstein
2021-10-24 16:51:38 UTC
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Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by ***@gmail.com
The Las Vegas-based columnist Roger Friedman says the inevitable civil lawsuits to emerge from this incident have effectively made the production of "Rust" every bit as D.O.A. as its unfortunate cinematographer.
STYBLE/Florida
Looking at the news coverage,the armorer got the job because
her father has experience at it and has had a spotty record;
she handed the gun to the First AD
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002577/
who has assistant-directing credits going back before she was born,
Looking further,Google points to a LinkedIn profile for him that
has been taken down,and the IMDb link actually mentions he had a
rare small acting role in Rust...as an undertaker.
Now here's a story that says he also had a bad history:
https://news.yahoo,com/rust-assistant-director-had-history-124048195.html

It looks like there was a chain of careless people.
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
who said "cold gun" (meaning it did NOT have the live ammo it DID have)
and handed it to Baldwin.
https://meaww.com/dave-halls-assistant-director-rust-brought-live-gun-alec-baldwin-safe-for-use-halyna-hutchins
I don't know who'll be prosecuted or how badly their careers
will be affected.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Louis Epstein
2021-10-24 17:35:56 UTC
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Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by ***@gmail.com
The Las Vegas-based columnist Roger Friedman says the inevitable civil lawsuits to emerge from this incident have effectively made the production of "Rust" every bit as D.O.A. as its unfortunate cinematographer.
STYBLE/Florida
Looking at the news coverage,the armorer got the job because
her father has experience at it and has had a spotty record;
she handed the gun to the First AD
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002577/
who has assistant-directing credits going back before she was born,
Looking further,Google points to a LinkedIn profile for him that
has been taken down,and the IMDb link actually mentions he had a
rare small acting role in Rust...as an undertaker.
https://news.yahoo,com/rust-assistant-director-had-history-124048195.html
It looks like there was a chain of careless people.
Daily Mail weighs in on both of them:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10125505/Filming-halted-Alec-Baldwin-Rust-movie-inexperienced-24-year-old-gave-gun-child-set.html
(a quote here says the AD is "the last person who's supposed to look at the
firearm"...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10125557/Rust-assistant-director-Dave-Halls-blasted-gun-safety-lapses.html
...while a commenter here says "...the number one rule of firearms safety?
Check and clear the weapon every time yourself,never take anyone's word that
it's un-loaded!")
Gutierrez-Reed to Hall to Baldwin and apparently a substitute prop master
was in the mix too.Buck got passed...death resulted.
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
who said "cold gun" (meaning it did NOT have the live ammo it DID have)
and handed it to Baldwin.
https://meaww.com/dave-halls-assistant-director-rust-brought-live-gun-alec-baldwin-safe-for-use-halyna-hutchins
I don't know who'll be prosecuted or how badly their careers
will be affected.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Louis Epstein
2021-10-25 02:55:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by ***@gmail.com
The Las Vegas-based columnist Roger Friedman says the inevitable civil lawsuits to emerge from this incident have effectively made the production of "Rust" every bit as D.O.A. as its unfortunate cinematographer.
STYBLE/Florida
Looking at the news coverage,the armorer got the job because
her father has experience at it and has had a spotty record;
she handed the gun to the First AD
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002577/
who has assistant-directing credits going back before she was born,
Looking further,Google points to a LinkedIn profile for him that
has been taken down,and the IMDb link actually mentions he had a
rare small acting role in Rust...as an undertaker.
https://news.yahoo,com/rust-assistant-director-had-history-124048195.html
Another:
https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-fatal-shooting-film-david-halls-complaint-ad-rust-blumhouse-police-1234861487/
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
It looks like there was a chain of careless people.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10125505/Filming-halted-Alec-Baldwin-Rust-movie-inexperienced-24-year-old-gave-gun-child-set.html
(a quote here says the AD is "the last person who's supposed to look at the
firearm"...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10125557/Rust-assistant-director-Dave-Halls-blasted-gun-safety-lapses.html
...while a commenter here says "...the number one rule of firearms safety?
Check and clear the weapon every time yourself,never take anyone's word that
it's un-loaded!")
Gutierrez-Reed to Hall to Baldwin and apparently a substitute prop master
was in the mix too.Buck got passed...death resulted.
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
who said "cold gun" (meaning it did NOT have the live ammo it DID have)
and handed it to Baldwin.
https://meaww.com/dave-halls-assistant-director-rust-brought-live-gun-alec-baldwin-safe-for-use-halyna-hutchins
I don't know who'll be prosecuted or how badly their careers
will be affected.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Raul TW
2021-10-22 19:54:05 UTC
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Post by Raul TW
He is well aware that blanks can injure. No need to be pulling the trigger. At a rehearsal no less. Reckless and stupid.
Hopefully the police tested Baldwin for alcohol and drugs.
Brandon Lee liked this post.
Adam H. Kerman
2021-10-22 20:07:44 UTC
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Post by Raul TW
(1) The Hollywood fixation on authenticity such that a real gun capable
firing a blank or round is required on set. Use toy guns. They look
real. Ask cops. They shoot at people holding toy guns all the time.
(2) Baldwin has been acting for 60 years. He is well aware that blanks
can injure. No need to be pulling the trigger. At a rehearsal no less.
Reckless and stupid.
Hopefully the police tested Baldwin for alcohol and drugs.
There's no test for recklessly stupid!
Travoltron
2021-10-22 20:44:58 UTC
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Post by Raul TW
(1) The Hollywood fixation on authenticity such that a real gun capable firing a blank or round is required on set. Use toy guns. They look real. Ask cops. They shoot at people holding toy guns all the time.
Well, gunshots probably could be done in post-production with CGI these
days. That wasn't possible in decades past, though.
Raul TW
2021-10-22 21:45:02 UTC
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Post by Travoltron
Post by Raul TW
(1) The Hollywood fixation on authenticity such that a real gun capable firing a blank or round is required on set. Use toy guns. They look real. Ask cops. They shoot at people holding toy guns all the time.
Well, gunshots probably could be done in post-production with CGI these
days. That wasn't possible in decades past, though.
Shocking that this issue was addressed decades ago after Brandon Lee. Hollywood spends millions building huge fancy sets but cannot build realistic safe prop guns? It is absurd. Can easily use safe prop guns that do not fire blanks. It is utterly unecessary. The notion of an armorer on a film set is laughable. These prop guns should not be capable of firing anything. Period.
Captain Squeeka
2021-10-22 22:00:24 UTC
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Post by Raul TW
Post by Travoltron
Post by Raul TW
(1) The Hollywood fixation on authenticity such that a real gun capable firing a blank or round is required on set. Use toy guns. They look real. Ask cops. They shoot at people holding toy guns all the time.
Well, gunshots probably could be done in post-production with CGI these
days. That wasn't possible in decades past, though.
Shocking that this issue was addressed decades ago after Brandon Lee. Hollywood spends millions building huge fancy sets but cannot build realistic safe prop guns? It is absurd. Can easily use safe prop guns that do not fire blanks. It is utterly unecessary. The notion of an armorer on a film set is laughable. These prop guns should not be capable of firing anything. Period.
After this, the "progressives" will demand all
firearms on set will be the type with the flag
comes out that says, "BANG."
--
Captain Squeeka
Master of Penetrating Insights
and Lubricating Social Interaction
Terry del Fuego
2021-10-22 23:08:17 UTC
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<https://variety.com/2021/film/news/alec-baldwin-halyna-hutchins-shooting-film-rust-live-round-1235095349/>

Prop Gun That Killed Cinematographer on Alec Baldwin Film Contained
‘Live Single Round,' Union Claims
By Brent Lang, Gene Maddaus

The prop gun that killed "Rust" cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and
wounded director Joel Souza on during an on-set accident on Thursday
contained a "live single round," according to an email sent by IATSE
Local 44 to its membership.

Additionally, the union says that New Mexico crew members staffed the
props, set decoration, special effects and construction departments on
"Rust," not its members.

"A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal
actor, hitting both the Director of Photography, Local 600 member
Halyna Hutchins, and Director Joel Souza," the union told members.
"Both were rushed to the hospital. Unfortunately, we lost Sister
Hutchins who passed from the wound."

Alec Baldwin, the star and producer of the Western, fired the prop
gun, according to the Santa Fe County Sheriff's office. Hutchins, 42,
was transported by helicopter to University of New Mexico Hospital in
Albuquerque, where she died. Souza, 48, was taken by ambulance to
Christus St. Vincent Regional Medical Center in Santa Fe, where he
received emergency treatment for his injuries. He has subsequently
left the hospital.

In the email that IATSE Local 44 sent, Secretary-Treasurer Anthony
Pawluc said the event was "an accidental weapons discharge."

"Local 44 has confirmed that the Props, Set Decoration, Special
Effects and Construction Departments were staffed by New Mexico crew
members," Pawluc said. "There were no Local 44 members on the call
sheet. On behalf of Local 44's Officers, Executive Board and Staff,
our thoughts and prayers go out to Halyna and her family. We also send
good thoughts to Joel and his family for a full recovery."

"Rust" is an independent feature that was filming at the Bonanza Creek
Ranch, a popular production location south of Santa Fe. Baldwin was
questioned by law enforcement. The Sheriff's office said in a
statement that Hutchins and Souza "were shot when a prop firearm was
discharged by Alec Baldwin, 68, producer and actor."

The production company initially reported on Thursday afternoon that
the incident involved "blanks," but the Sheriff's office later said
that it was too soon to determine what type of round was used.

The International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, the parent
union representing most U.S. production workers, also issued a
statement, saying it was "heartbroken and devastated" by the tragedy.

"Our entire alliance mourns this unspeakable loss with Halyna's
family, friends, and the Rust crew," the union said. "We are
activating our partnerships across the industry to provide support and
resources to our sisters, brothers, and kin. Creating a culture of
safety requires relentless vigilance from every one of us, day in and
day out. Please, if you see something, say something. If you feel
unsafe on set for any reason, including harassment, send us a tip via
the IATSE Safety Hotline at 844-422-9273 or using our safety info
app."

IndieWire first reported the contents of the IATSE Local 44 email.
Terry del Fuego
2021-10-22 23:10:24 UTC
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<https://variety.com/2021/film/news/rust-crew-members-safety-issues-alec-baldwin-1235095828/>

'Rust' Production Was Chaotic Prior to Fatal Prop Gun Accident,
Producers Launch Internal Safety Review

By Pat Saperstein

As the industry grapples with the tragic on-set death of
cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, a picture is emerging of a low-budget
film set that was already chaotic before the fatal accident occurred.

Several IATSE crew members on the New Mexico set of the Western
"Rust," where cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed Thursday by a
prop gun shot by Alec Baldwin, reportedly quit the production because
they felt producers were not following safety guidelines, according to
numerous reports.

"Rust" began shooting Oct. 6 at Bonanza Creek Ranch near Sante Fe, and
crew members had been observing safety problems for several days.

Several crew members walked off the set due to concerns over gun
safety procedures, other safety issues and COVID protocols not being
followed. The production had also allegedly refused to pay for hotel
rooms in pricey Santa Fe, asking some crew members to stay in
Albuquerque instead, a one-hour drive from the ranch.

Producers called security on the crew members who submitted their
resignations to ask them to leave the location. The fatal shooting is
said to have occurred about six hours after the union crew members
left. After the accident, a 911 caller was heard telling a crew member
they were supposed to check the guns and placing the blame on them,
TMZ reported.

Hutchins and the Steadicam operator were the only original crew
members who remained in the camera and electrical departments, and the
other positions had been replaced with non-union members, according to
a source with knowledge of the situation.

A crew member said there had already been other prop gun misfires
before Thursday’s fatal accident, the L.A. Times reported.

There have also been social media posts from people identifying
themselves as members of the "Rust" crew that claim the production was
poorly funded and lacked sufficient oversight.

The "Rust" producers released a statement Friday saying they were not
aware of complaints, but would conduct an "internal review" of
procedures. "The safety of our cast and crew is the top priority of
Rust Productions and everyone associated with the company. Though we
were not made aware of any official complaints concerning weapon or
prop safety on set, we will be conducting an internal review of our
procedures while production is shut down. We will continue to
cooperate with the Santa Fe authorities in their investigation and
offer mental health services to the cast and crew during this tragic
time," read the statement from Rust Movie Productions LLC.

The New Mexico Occupational Health and Safety Bureau released a
statement saying it is investigating the incident. "On Thursday
evening, the New Mexico Occupational Health and Safety Bureau (OHSB)
learned through the New Mexico Film Office of a workplace fatality and
an injury to a second person that occurred during filming on a movie
set in Santa Fe County. The production company reported the fatality
and injury to OHSB last night, in accordance with workplace safety
laws. OHSB is investigating the incident in coordination with law
enforcement, the employer, and employees. No additional information
will be released at this time, pending completion of the
investigation."
Raul TW
2021-10-22 23:02:36 UTC
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Post by Raul TW
(1) The Hollywood fixation on authenticity such that a real gun capable firing a blank or round is required on set. Use toy guns. They look real. Ask cops. They shoot at people holding toy guns all the time.
(2) Baldwin has been acting for 60 years. He is well aware that blanks can injure. No need to be pulling the trigger. At a rehearsal no less. Reckless and stupid.
Hopefully the police tested Baldwin for alcohol and drugs.
Wanna bet?
--
Captain Squeeka
Master of Penetrating Insights
and Lubricating Social Interaction
Should have been tested but probably was not. Would not be surprised if he was under the influence and/or pissed off on the set. It was a rehearsal but hopefully the cameras were rolling.

Or maybe not... At least we will no longer be subjected to his Trump impersonations.

Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of “Rust” with a prop gun, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.

The camera operators and their assistants were frustrated by the conditions surrounding the low-budget film, including complaints of long hours and getting their paychecks, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment.

The camera crew showed up for work as expected at 6:30 a.m. Thursday and began gathering up their gear and personal belongings to leave, one knowledgeable crew member told the Los Angeles Times.

Labor trouble had been brewing for days on the dusty set at the Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe.
Louis Epstein
2021-10-24 05:24:14 UTC
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Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Topic Cop
Post by ***@gmail.com
Early reports make it sure look like legendary showbiz bad boy Alec Baldwin was here a victim of unfortunate circumstance; the late lady Hutchins, born Ukrainian, seems clearly a victim of some sort.
Joel Souza, the director of "Rust" on location in New Mexico near Santa Fe, was also wounded in the on-set incident on Thursday.
BRYAN STYBLE/Florida
https://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/sheriffs-office-alec-baldwins-prop-firearm-kills-one-injures-another/article_9612afc6-32c5-11ec-9e2e-e3cc47b69ce5.html
This seems to happen every once in awhile.
I think we need stronger gun laws. Or at least stricter rules on movie sets.
There are extremely strict rules on movie sets, which is why this
happens decades apart. It's just that Baldwin violated every one of
them. I can say that because he wasn't just the star but the producer.
As I said in another newsgroup, I was appalled to learn that this wasn't
another actor during production, but it was the D.P. and the
director/writer between takes. Baldwin shouldn't have even had the gun.
Actors are stupid. Actors are not sober. Actors are very stupid when
sober and not sober. Therefore, all guns are to be in control of the
armorer on set at all times during breaks in production. They are not to
be held by actors except during scenes. A prop gun, even if loaded with
blanks, is still a gun and is to be treated like a gun. It's not to be
aimed at another person. The actor holding the gun isn't to put his
finger on the trigger when not discharging it.
Actors are not allowed to load or unload their weapons. That's the
armorer's job. The armorer is responsible for putting live ammunition
instead of blanks, but everyone knows that deadly mistakes can be made
which is why you don't play around with guns even if you believe they
are loaded with blanks.
A somewhat different take at
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123493/Alec-Baldwin-ignored-golden-rule-gun-safety-never-loaded.html
"There should have never been live rounds on a movie set,that's number one.
Number two is every single person on a movie set has a right to inspect a
weapon before it's fired..."
Hard to not be allowed to load or unload what you have a right to inspect.
Also see
https://nypost.com/2021/10/23/baldwin-ignored-no-1-rule-of-gun-safety-hollywood-weapons-expert/
THAT expert says number one is "Loaded or unloaded,a weapon never gets pointed at
another human being" (which is the number three for the other guy).

In any event,read their lists of rules,Baldwin indeed broke plenty.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
It's still Baldwin's responsibility for aiming and pulling the trigger.
And it's still Baldwin's responsibility for supervising the armorer as
producer.
Apparently the young armorer (who has a spotty track record) and the
assistant director who called the gun "cold" handing it to Baldwin
are going to be facing interrogation.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Kenny McCormack
2021-10-25 10:03:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <sl4qph$d5s$***@reader1.panix.com>,
Louis Epstein <***@top.put.com> wrote:
...
Baldwin,not verifying this,pointed the gun alongside the camera
at the cinematographer and the director-screenwriter,and pulled
the trigger,sending a bullet through her chest and into his shoulder.
A chain of nothing but weak links.
Their lawyers will probably try to off-load as much blame as possible.
Yeah, see that's the funny thing. These people should all be put in
prison, but of course, that will never happen, because they are rich and
powerful.

The fact is that if you or I (or any other ordinary Joe) was playing around
with a loaded gun (whether or not we knew it was loaded or not - that is,
in fact, totally irrelevant) and something happens, and somebody dies as a
result of that something, then we are guilty of some level of manslaughter.
And it is basically a slam dunk prosecution. This sort of thing *IS*
routinely prosecuted (against ordinary Joes) and people are routinely sent
to prison for it.

It is really a shame they don't apply the same standard to movie folks. If
they did, I think this (recurring) problem would go away, pronto.
--
Mike Huckabee has yet to consciously uncouple from Josh Duggar.
Louis Epstein
2021-10-25 21:48:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kenny McCormack
...
Baldwin,not verifying this,pointed the gun alongside the camera
at the cinematographer and the director-screenwriter,and pulled
the trigger,sending a bullet through her chest and into his shoulder.
A chain of nothing but weak links.
Their lawyers will probably try to off-load as much blame as possible.
Yeah, see that's the funny thing. These people should all be put in
prison, but of course, that will never happen, because they are rich and
powerful.
Only rich & powerful person in the chain of weak links is Baldwin,
are you saying they will imprison the others?
https://www.nypost.com/2021/10/25/alec-baldwin-among-those-responsible-for-checking-gun-rust-crew-member-says/
https://www.nypost.com/2021/10/25/alec-baldwin-was-practicing-pointing-revolver-at-camera-during-fatal-prop-gun-mishap/
https://www.nypost.com/2021/10/25/veteran-prop-mast-lists-breaches-in-fatal-rust-shooting/
(see video tutorial on what should have been done)
https://www.nypost.com/2021/10/25/rookie-armorer-on-baldwin-set-said-she-loves-to-show-how-safe-guns-are/
Another story:
https:/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10127317/Alec-Baldwin-pointed-gun-camera-weapon-fired-rehearsal.html
Post by Kenny McCormack
The fact is that if you or I (or any other ordinary Joe) was playing around
with a loaded gun (whether or not we knew it was loaded or not - that is,
in fact, totally irrelevant) and something happens, and somebody dies as a
result of that something, then we are guilty of some level of manslaughter.
And it is basically a slam dunk prosecution. This sort of thing *IS*
routinely prosecuted (against ordinary Joes) and people are routinely sent
to prison for it.
What about civil prosecution?
Post by Kenny McCormack
It is really a shame they don't apply the same standard to movie folks. If
they did, I think this (recurring) problem would go away, pronto.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Adam H. Kerman
2021-10-25 23:13:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Kenny McCormack
The fact is that if you or I (or any other ordinary Joe) was playing around
with a loaded gun (whether or not we knew it was loaded or not - that is,
in fact, totally irrelevant) and something happens, and somebody dies as a
result of that something, then we are guilty of some level of manslaughter.
And it is basically a slam dunk prosecution. This sort of thing *IS*
routinely prosecuted (against ordinary Joes) and people are routinely sent
to prison for it.
What about civil prosecution?
You mean a tort lawsuit for P.I.? Of course that's going to happen.

UK has a concept of criminal prosecution by other than a Queen's
Counsel. I have no idea how it works but it was a plot point on a tv
episode I saw.
Louis Epstein
2021-10-27 00:15:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Kenny McCormack
The fact is that if you or I (or any other ordinary Joe) was playing around
with a loaded gun (whether or not we knew it was loaded or not - that is,
in fact, totally irrelevant) and something happens, and somebody dies as a
result of that something, then we are guilty of some level of manslaughter.
And it is basically a slam dunk prosecution. This sort of thing *IS*
routinely prosecuted (against ordinary Joes) and people are routinely sent
to prison for it.
What about civil prosecution?
You mean a tort lawsuit for P.I.? Of course that's going to happen.
UK has a concept of criminal prosecution by other than a Queen's
Counsel. I have no idea how it works but it was a plot point on a tv
episode I saw.
To be clear,a Queen's Counsel is a totally different thing than a Crown
prosecutor...QCs are distinguished barristers who have been approved for
that distinction,they wear different wigs than,and are required to employ
the assistance of,ordinary barristers.They can work for whoever hires them
(though clients employ solicitors who then hire barristers as needed...a
barrister litigates and is not needed for all legal business).

As far as the Rust shooting goes...

https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/veteran-prop-master-turned-down-rust-over-massive-red-flags/
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/rust-crew-used-alec-baldwins-prop-gun-for-plinking/
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/criminal-charges-have-not-been-ruled-out-in-alec-baldwin-rust-shooting/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rust-alec-baldwin-ammo-fanny-pack_n_61778378e4b079111a5b90e8

Possibly of note:

https://www.yahoo.com/now/peer-rust-gun-handler-expresses-005350805.html

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Adam H. Kerman
2021-10-27 01:25:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Kenny McCormack
The fact is that if you or I (or any other ordinary Joe) was playing around
with a loaded gun (whether or not we knew it was loaded or not - that is,
in fact, totally irrelevant) and something happens, and somebody dies as a
result of that something, then we are guilty of some level of manslaughter.
And it is basically a slam dunk prosecution. This sort of thing *IS*
routinely prosecuted (against ordinary Joes) and people are routinely sent
to prison for it.
What about civil prosecution?
You mean a tort lawsuit for P.I.? Of course that's going to happen.
UK has a concept of criminal prosecution by other than a Queen's
Counsel. I have no idea how it works but it was a plot point on a tv
episode I saw.
To be clear,a Queen's Counsel is a totally different thing than a Crown
prosecutor...QCs are distinguished barristers who have been approved for
that distinction,they wear different wigs than,and are required to employ
the assistance of,ordinary barristers.They can work for whoever hires them
(though clients employ solicitors who then hire barristers as needed...a
barrister litigates and is not needed for all legal business).
I thought a Queen's Counsel could serve as prosecutor in a criminal
case. I was trying to recall Rumpole of the Bailey. My error.
Post by Louis Epstein
As far as the Rust shooting goes...
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/veteran-prop-master-turned-down-rust-over-massive-red-flags/
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/rust-crew-used-alec-baldwins-prop-gun-for-plinking/
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/criminal-charges-have-not-been-ruled-out-in-alec-baldwin-rust-shooting/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rust-alec-baldwin-ammo-fanny-pack_n_61778378e4b079111a5b90e8
https://www.yahoo.com/now/peer-rust-gun-handler-expresses-005350805.html
Louis Epstein
2021-10-27 02:13:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Kenny McCormack
The fact is that if you or I (or any other ordinary Joe) was playing around
with a loaded gun (whether or not we knew it was loaded or not - that is,
in fact, totally irrelevant) and something happens, and somebody dies as a
result of that something, then we are guilty of some level of manslaughter.
And it is basically a slam dunk prosecution. This sort of thing *IS*
routinely prosecuted (against ordinary Joes) and people are routinely sent
to prison for it.
What about civil prosecution?
You mean a tort lawsuit for P.I.? Of course that's going to happen.
UK has a concept of criminal prosecution by other than a Queen's
Counsel. I have no idea how it works but it was a plot point on a tv
episode I saw.
To be clear,a Queen's Counsel is a totally different thing than a Crown
prosecutor...QCs are distinguished barristers who have been approved for
that distinction,they wear different wigs than,and are required to employ
the assistance of,ordinary barristers.They can work for whoever hires them
(though clients employ solicitors who then hire barristers as needed...a
barrister litigates and is not needed for all legal business).
I thought a Queen's Counsel could serve as prosecutor in a criminal
case. I was trying to recall Rumpole of the Bailey. My error.
I suppose a private QC could be in the employ of a government
entity.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
As far as the Rust shooting goes...
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/veteran-prop-master-turned-down-rust-over-massive-red-flags/
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/rust-crew-used-alec-baldwins-prop-gun-for-plinking/
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/criminal-charges-have-not-been-ruled-out-in-alec-baldwin-rust-shooting/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rust-alec-baldwin-ammo-fanny-pack_n_61778378e4b079111a5b90e8
https://www.yahoo.com/now/peer-rust-gun-handler-expresses-005350805.html
And forgot to insert:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10131519/Electrician-describes-harrowing-moment-held-dying-Halyna-Hutchins-arms-shot.html

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Louis Epstein
2021-10-27 09:05:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Kenny McCormack
The fact is that if you or I (or any other ordinary Joe) was playing around
with a loaded gun (whether or not we knew it was loaded or not - that is,
in fact, totally irrelevant) and something happens, and somebody dies as a
result of that something, then we are guilty of some level of manslaughter.
And it is basically a slam dunk prosecution. This sort of thing *IS*
routinely prosecuted (against ordinary Joes) and people are routinely sent
to prison for it.
What about civil prosecution?
You mean a tort lawsuit for P.I.? Of course that's going to happen.
UK has a concept of criminal prosecution by other than a Queen's
Counsel. I have no idea how it works but it was a plot point on a tv
episode I saw.
To be clear,a Queen's Counsel is a totally different thing than a Crown
prosecutor...QCs are distinguished barristers who have been approved for
that distinction,they wear different wigs than,and are required to employ
the assistance of,ordinary barristers.They can work for whoever hires them
(though clients employ solicitors who then hire barristers as needed...a
barrister litigates and is not needed for all legal business).
I thought a Queen's Counsel could serve as prosecutor in a criminal
case. I was trying to recall Rumpole of the Bailey. My error.
I suppose a private QC could be in the employ of a government
entity.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
As far as the Rust shooting goes...
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/veteran-prop-master-turned-down-rust-over-massive-red-flags/
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/rust-crew-used-alec-baldwins-prop-gun-for-plinking/
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/criminal-charges-have-not-been-ruled-out-in-alec-baldwin-rust-shooting/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rust-alec-baldwin-ammo-fanny-pack_n_61778378e4b079111a5b90e8
https://www.yahoo.com/now/peer-rust-gun-handler-expresses-005350805.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10131519/Electrician-describes-harrowing-moment-held-dying-Halyna-Hutchins-arms-shot.html
More on Gutierrez-Reed:
https://www.thewrap.com/rust-armorer-inexperience-hannah-gutierrez-fired-nicolas-cage-film/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10134475/Rust-director-looks-distraught-seen-time-fatal-set-shooting.html
Post by Louis Epstein
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Louis Epstein
2021-10-27 15:16:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Kenny McCormack
The fact is that if you or I (or any other ordinary Joe) was playing around
with a loaded gun (whether or not we knew it was loaded or not - that is,
in fact, totally irrelevant) and something happens, and somebody dies as a
result of that something, then we are guilty of some level of manslaughter.
And it is basically a slam dunk prosecution. This sort of thing *IS*
routinely prosecuted (against ordinary Joes) and people are routinely sent
to prison for it.
What about civil prosecution?
You mean a tort lawsuit for P.I.? Of course that's going to happen.
UK has a concept of criminal prosecution by other than a Queen's
Counsel. I have no idea how it works but it was a plot point on a tv
episode I saw.
To be clear,a Queen's Counsel is a totally different thing than a Crown
prosecutor...QCs are distinguished barristers who have been approved for
that distinction,they wear different wigs than,and are required to employ
the assistance of,ordinary barristers.They can work for whoever hires them
(though clients employ solicitors who then hire barristers as needed...a
barrister litigates and is not needed for all legal business).
I thought a Queen's Counsel could serve as prosecutor in a criminal
case. I was trying to recall Rumpole of the Bailey. My error.
I suppose a private QC could be in the employ of a government
entity.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
As far as the Rust shooting goes...
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/veteran-prop-master-turned-down-rust-over-massive-red-flags/
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/rust-crew-used-alec-baldwins-prop-gun-for-plinking/
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/criminal-charges-have-not-been-ruled-out-in-alec-baldwin-rust-shooting/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rust-alec-baldwin-ammo-fanny-pack_n_61778378e4b079111a5b90e8
https://www.yahoo.com/now/peer-rust-gun-handler-expresses-005350805.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10131519/Electrician-describes-harrowing-moment-held-dying-Halyna-Hutchins-arms-shot.html
https://www.thewrap.com/rust-armorer-inexperience-hannah-gutierrez-fired-nicolas-cage-film/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10134475/Rust-director-looks-distraught-seen-time-fatal-set-shooting.html
This sounds a little hyperbolic but not enough so for comfort...carelessness
afoot:
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/actor-on-rust-set-describes-life-threatening-conditions-during-shootout-scene-before-fatal-accident
CNN reconstructs:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/26/entertainment/rust-alec-baldwin-shooting-unfolded-cec/index.html
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Louis Epstein
2021-10-28 06:07:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
https://www.thewrap.com/rust-armorer-inexperience-hannah-gutierrez-fired-nicolas-cage-film/
She wasn't inexperienced! She was experienced! The experience was bad
and she never should have been hired for any movie production
subsequently!
Post by Louis Epstein
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10134475/Rust-director-looks-distraught-seen-time-fatal-set-shooting.html
I hope criminal charges are filed. It's the only way to get future
film productions to take safety seriously.
And the next weak link in the chain,who's been assistant-directing since
before she was born,has his own issues...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10137117/500-rounds-ammo-recovered-Baldwin-set-including-live-rounds.html
details of what was done (and should have been) with the gun.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Adam H. Kerman
2021-10-28 15:46:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
And the next weak link in the chain,who's been assistant-directing since
before she was born,has his own issues...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10137117/500-rounds-ammo-recovered-Baldwin-set-including-live-rounds.html
details of what was done (and should have been) with the gun.
He saw shells in 5 chambers. He check 3 chambers, but not the other two?
Who the hell does that?
Ravi _
2021-10-28 21:15:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
And the next weak link in the chain,who's been assistant-directing since
before she was born,has his own issues...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10137117/500-rounds-ammo-recovered-Baldwin-set-including-live-rounds.html
details of what was done (and should have been) with the gun.
He saw shells in 5 chambers. He check 3 chambers, but not the other two?
Who the hell does that?
Most likely he did not check at all. But he can't admit to that. So he comes up with this story. Also strange that he would take the gun and hand it right back to the incompetent airhead "armorer".
After the shooting, he marched the gun back to the armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed and had her open it

That's when they realized there were four dummy casings and the spent shell of the live round Baldwin fired

Sheriffs said Wednesday that charges are 'on the table' for an array of people - including 63-year-old Baldwin
Louis Epstein
2021-10-29 06:03:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
And the next weak link in the chain,who's been assistant-directing since
before she was born,has his own issues...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10137117/500-rounds-ammo-recovered-Baldwin-set-including-live-rounds.html
details of what was done (and should have been) with the gun.
He saw shells in 5 chambers. He check 3 chambers, but not the other two?
Who the hell does that?
Somebody who quickly proceeds to lawyer up:

https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-david-halls-hannah-gutierrez-hire-lawyers-halyna-hutchins-1234864561/

Hands are being washed:

https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-producers-liability-haylna-hutchins-death-investigation-1234864223/

https://deadline.com/2021/10/rust-shootin-indie-movie-dangers-peter-bart-1234864187/

I don't think I posted this one...comments are interesting:
https://deadline.com/2021/10/rust-alec-baldwin-tragedy-jenner-block-law-firm-hired-internal-investigation-sante-fee-sheriff-1234863191/

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Louis Epstein
2021-10-29 16:05:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
And the next weak link in the chain,who's been assistant-directing since
before she was born,has his own issues...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10137117/500-rounds-ammo-recovered-Baldwin-set-including-live-rounds.html
details of what was done (and should have been) with the gun.
He saw shells in 5 chambers. He check 3 chambers, but not the other two?
Who the hell does that?
https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-david-halls-hannah-gutierrez-hire-lawyers-halyna-hutchins-1234864561/
Armorer's statement issued through her new lawyers:
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/rust-armorer-breaks-silence-alec-baldwin-shooting-incident-blames-producers-unsafe-conditions
(From other sources,the "unrevealed" other job she had was assistant prop master)

Bucks are being passed.
Post by Louis Epstein
https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-producers-liability-haylna-hutchins-death-investigation-1234864223/
https://deadline.com/2021/10/rust-shootin-indie-movie-dangers-peter-bart-1234864187/
https://deadline.com/2021/10/rust-alec-baldwin-tragedy-jenner-block-law-firm-hired-internal-investigation-sante-fee-sheriff-1234863191/
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Louis Epstein
2021-11-04 05:20:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
And the next weak link in the chain,who's been assistant-directing since
before she was born,has his own issues...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10137117/500-rounds-ammo-recovered-Baldwin-set-including-live-rounds.html
details of what was done (and should have been) with the gun.
He saw shells in 5 chambers. He check 3 chambers, but not the other two?
Who the hell does that?
https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-david-halls-hannah-gutierrez-hire-lawyers-halyna-hutchins-1234864561/
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/rust-armorer-breaks-silence-alec-baldwin-shooting-incident-blames-producers-unsafe-conditions
(From other sources,the "unrevealed" other job she had was assistant prop master)
Bucks are being passed.
And now the buck-passing says the gun was left unattended for hours:
https://nypost.com/2021/11/03/alec-baldwins-rust-gun-left-unattended-before-halyna-hutchins-shot/
https://nypost.com/2021/11/03/hannah-gutierrez-reeds-attorney-auggests-rust-crew-sabotaged-set/

And did I mention the reports that the props head Sarah Zachry
(armorer's immediate supervisor) literally shot herself in the
foot earlier?
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-producers-liability-haylna-hutchins-death-investigation-1234864223/
https://deadline.com/2021/10/rust-shootin-indie-movie-dangers-peter-bart-1234864187/
https://deadline.com/2021/10/rust-alec-baldwin-tragedy-jenner-block-law-firm-hired-internal-investigation-sante-fee-sheriff-1234863191/
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Louis Epstein
2021-11-10 22:42:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Kenny McCormack
The fact is that if you or I (or any other ordinary Joe) was playing around
with a loaded gun (whether or not we knew it was loaded or not - that is,
in fact, totally irrelevant) and something happens, and somebody dies as a
result of that something, then we are guilty of some level of manslaughter.
And it is basically a slam dunk prosecution. This sort of thing *IS*
routinely prosecuted (against ordinary Joes) and people are routinely sent
to prison for it.
What about civil prosecution?
You mean a tort lawsuit for P.I.?
"General negligence" is cited by the old friend in whose arms she died...
with "inury,including severe emotional distress,as a direct and proximate
result of this incident."
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Of course that's going to happen.
Here's the lawsuit described:
https://deadline.com/2021/11/alec-baldwin-rust-lawsuit-fatal-shooting-halyna-hutchins-serge-svetnoy-1234871615/
and the complaint itself in PDF
https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/rust-lawsuit.pdf
Direct details of the shooting are included.

I suppose other suits will follow.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Louis Epstein
2021-11-22 01:45:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Kenny McCormack
The fact is that if you or I (or any other ordinary Joe) was playing around
with a loaded gun (whether or not we knew it was loaded or not - that is,
in fact, totally irrelevant) and something happens, and somebody dies as a
result of that something, then we are guilty of some level of manslaughter.
And it is basically a slam dunk prosecution. This sort of thing *IS*
routinely prosecuted (against ordinary Joes) and people are routinely sent
to prison for it.
What about civil prosecution?
You mean a tort lawsuit for P.I.?
"General negligence" is cited by the old friend in whose arms she died...
with "injury,including severe emotional distress,as a direct and proximate
result of this incident."
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Of course that's going to happen.
https://deadline.com/2021/11/alec-baldwin-rust-lawsuit-fatal-shooting-halyna-hutchins-serge-svetnoy-1234871615/
and the complaint itself in PDF
https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/rust-lawsuit.pdf
Direct details of the shooting are included.
I suppose other suits will follow.
And yes,script supervisor Mamie Mitchell,who called 911,
has also sued,with Gloria Allred representing her.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10213389/
The complaint itself in PDF:
https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/RUST-mitchell-allred-complaint.pdf
The script supervisor says the script for the scene
being rehearsed did not call for a gun to be fired.


Per CNN and Fox,the assistant director's lawyer says checking the gun
was not his responsibility.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/01/entertainment/rust-shooting-assistant-director-gun/index.html
(So if he hands someone a gun and says it's not loaded,he has no responsibility
for telling the truth?)
Post by Louis Epstein
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Adam H. Kerman
2021-11-22 02:43:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
. . .
Per CNN and Fox,the assistant director's lawyer says checking the gun
was not his responsibility.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/01/entertainment/rust-shooting-assistant-director-gun/index.html
(So if he hands someone a gun and says it's not loaded,he has no responsibility
for telling the truth?)
Then the fuckhead shouldn't have touched the weapon. He should have been
the armourer take responsibility for her job and had the weapon to
Baldwin.

On a stage play or movie set, I've just never heard of people who aren't
the propmaster or part of the props crew hand anything to actors.
Louis Epstein
2021-11-26 02:53:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Louis Epstein
. . .
Per CNN and Fox,the assistant director's lawyer says checking the gun
was not his responsibility.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/01/entertainment/rust-shooting-assistant-director-gun/index.html
(So if he hands someone a gun and says it's not loaded,he has no responsibility
for telling the truth?)
Then the fuckhead shouldn't have touched the weapon. He should have been
the armourer take responsibility for her job and had the weapon to
Baldwin.
On a stage play or movie set, I've just never heard of people who aren't
the propmaster or part of the props crew hand anything to actors.
I'd still like to hear more about these "CoViD precautions" that
involved the weapons being left unattended on a table for the AD
to pick up rather than letting the armorer onto the set.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

M Kfivethousand
2021-11-13 00:10:16 UTC
Reply
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Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Topic Cop
Post by ***@gmail.com
Early reports make it sure look like legendary showbiz bad boy Alec Baldwin was here a victim of unfortunate circumstance; the late lady Hutchins, born Ukrainian, seems clearly a victim of some sort.
Joel Souza, the director of "Rust" on location in New Mexico near Santa Fe, was also wounded in the on-set incident on Thursday.
BRYAN STYBLE/Florida
https://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/sheriffs-office-alec-baldwins-prop-firearm-kills-one-injures-another/article_9612afc6-32c5-11ec-9e2e-e3cc47b69ce5.html
This seems to happen every once in awhile.
I think we need stronger gun laws. Or at least stricter rules on movie sets.
There are extremely strict rules on movie sets, which is why this
happens decades apart. It's just that Baldwin violated every one of
them. I can say that because he wasn't just the star but the producer.
As I said in another newsgroup, I was appalled to learn that this wasn't
another actor during production, but it was the D.P. and the
director/writer between takes. Baldwin shouldn't have even had the gun.
Actors are stupid. Actors are not sober. Actors are very stupid when
sober and not sober. Therefore, all guns are to be in control of the
armorer on set at all times during breaks in production. They are not to
be held by actors except during scenes. A prop gun, even if loaded with
blanks, is still a gun and is to be treated like a gun. It's not to be
aimed at another person. The actor holding the gun isn't to put his
finger on the trigger when not discharging it.
Actors are not allowed to load or unload their weapons. That's the
armorer's job. The armorer is responsible for putting live ammunition
instead of blanks, but everyone knows that deadly mistakes can be made
which is why you don't play around with guns even if you believe they
are loaded with blanks.
It's still Baldwin's responsibility for aiming and pulling the trigger.
And it's still Baldwin's responsibility for supervising the armorer as
producer.
Lawsuits filed this week by close friend of halyna

Sounds as if the armorer was Tom sawyering her duties

mk5000

The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

Friedrich August von Hayek
Terry del Fuego
2021-10-22 16:59:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 06:43:19 -0700 (PDT), Topic Cop
Post by Topic Cop
This seems to happen every once in awhile.
I think we need stronger gun laws. Or at least stricter rules on movie sets.
As I understand it, the stricter rules exist (at least on union
shoots), but rules don't mean much to people who can't be bothered to
do their jobs or are worked to exhaustion.

Do I just not know how to use the Internet or are the details on this
still nonexistent? I'm morbidly curious how two people got hit and
whether the gun was truly just a poorly-prepared prop or if Baldwin
was doing something stupid.
Adam H. Kerman
2021-10-22 20:09:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Terry del Fuego
Post by Topic Cop
This seems to happen every once in awhile.
I think we need stronger gun laws. Or at least stricter rules on movie sets.
As I understand it, the stricter rules exist (at least on union
shoots), but rules don't mean much to people who can't be bothered to
do their jobs or are worked to exhaustion.
Do I just not know how to use the Internet or are the details on this
still nonexistent? I'm morbidly curious how two people got hit and
whether the gun was truly just a poorly-prepared prop or if Baldwin
was doing something stupid.
It strongly suggests he fired multiple times, yes.
Louis Epstein
2021-10-24 16:42:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Terry del Fuego
Post by Topic Cop
This seems to happen every once in awhile.
I think we need stronger gun laws. Or at least stricter rules on movie sets.
As I understand it, the stricter rules exist (at least on union
shoots), but rules don't mean much to people who can't be bothered to
do their jobs or are worked to exhaustion.
Do I just not know how to use the Internet or are the details on this
still nonexistent? I'm morbidly curious how two people got hit and
whether the gun was truly just a poorly-prepared prop or if Baldwin
was doing something stupid.
It strongly suggests he fired multiple times, yes.
Allegedly, the round passed through one person into another.
With rapid death, I bet it was a neck shot or something like that.
We shall see.
The news stories say it passed through her chest into his shoulder.
I gather it had to be a full-fledged bullet to do that?
Some of the diagrams differentiate between "dummy" and "blank"
alternatives to bullets.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Louis Epstein
2021-10-25 03:01:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Early reports make it sure look like legendary showbiz bad boy Alec Baldwin was here a victim of unfortunate circumstance; the late lady Hutchins, born Ukrainian, seems clearly a victim of some sort.
Joel Souza, the director of "Rust" on location in New Mexico near Santa Fe, was also wounded in the on-set incident on Thursday.
BRYAN STYBLE/Florida
===================================================
https://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/sheriffs-office-alec-baldwins-prop-firearm-kills-one-injures-another/article_9612afc6-32c5-11ec-9e2e-e3cc47b69ce5.html
FWIW:
Her maiden name was Androsovych and she and lawyer husband Matthew Hutchins
had a 9-year-old son named Andros.

Her union (International Cinematographers Guild Local 600)
has set up a GoFundme for the family that initially sought $10,000
but has at this writing raised over $195,000:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/raise-funds-in-memory-of-halyna-hutchins

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
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