Discussion:
Hunter Gibson, 101, father of actor Mel Gibson; anti-modernism Catholic theoretcian
(too old to reply)
That Derek
2020-05-15 00:43:36 UTC
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[Post-er advises waiting for a more mainstream write-up]

http://catholicendtimetruths.com/hutton-gibson-rip-may-11/14/05/2020

Hutton Gibson RIP May 11

May 14

I had a dream that he died last week.

FYI, no matter what you may think of Hutton Gibson, and his son Mel, he was a truly great man. He lived for many years in Australia, at Tangambalanga, where Mel also had a rural property. All was sold some years ago, and there is now little Australian connection.

Please pray for Hutton, Defender of the Faith, even if he was a little off the beam.

Don

Hutton Gibson, father of actor-producer-director Mel Gibson and ten other children, and an outspoken traditional Catholic, who rejected both the heretical Newchurch of the New Order and the Society of St. Pius X, died (not of the Chinese Virus) on May 11, 2020, at the age of 101, having been born on August 26, 1918, three months before the armistice ending World War I was signed. He himself was a World War II veteran, serving with the United States Marines at the Battle of Guadalcanal against the Empire of Japan. Gibson was also a highly-successful quiz-show contestant in Australia and the United States, becoming Grand Champion of the famed “Jeopardy!” Tournament of Champions in 1968, winning well over 100,000 U.S. dollars from his various contests.

It was only fitting that a man who had so staunchly promoted and defended the traditional Catholic Faith all his life should have had a happy death, fortified by the traditional Last Rites of the true Catholic Church and surrounded by his family. In the cause of traditional Catholicism, which he vigorously advanced throughout his long life, Hutton Gibson founded the Alliance for Catholic Tradition, wrote six books, and published a monthly traditional Catholic periodical, “The War is Now!” He rejected the post-Vatican II heretical Newpopes as null and void.

Hutton Gibson published six books and one video that expose the invalidity of the Newchurch of the New Order, founded on November 21, 1964, at the Vatican II Anti-council. He wrote early on about what has become clear to many only now, many decades after the Anti-council, that the Anti-council and Newchurch has in fact been initiated and run by Modernists and Freemasons. Gibson published three book collections from his periodical “The War Is Now!”:

Is the Pope Catholic? (1978)
The Enemy Is Here! (1994)
The Enemy Is Still Here! (2003)

Gibson also published three other books and one video:
The Robber ChurchAuthority & Jurisdiction of the Society of St. Pius XTime out of MindCatholics, Where Has Our Church Gone?(video)

In 2006 Gibson purchased a church building in a suburb of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and founded there the St. Michael the Archangel Roman Catholic Chapel.
Kenny McCormack
2020-05-15 00:56:50 UTC
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Post by That Derek
[Post-er advises waiting for a more mainstream write-up]
http://catholicendtimetruths.com/hutton-gibson-rip-may-11/14/05/2020
Hutton Gibson RIP May 11
Hutton or Hunter?
--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
in the real world."

- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden -
That Derek
2020-05-15 02:06:04 UTC
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HUTTON Gibson, not HUNTER.

Mea culpa.
Louis Epstein
2020-05-17 04:56:17 UTC
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Post by That Derek
HUTTON Gibson, not HUNTER.
Mea culpa.
So...Correct the header?!

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Travoltron
2020-05-15 19:56:49 UTC
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The good die young.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-05-15 20:27:33 UTC
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Post by Travoltron
The good die young.
That was merely a line Billy Joel used to bed Catholic girls.

It's like the days of virgin sacrifice to appease the gods: Any teenage boy,
no matter how shlubby, could get laid.
Travoltron
2020-05-16 13:37:37 UTC
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Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Travoltron
The good die young.
That was merely a line Billy Joel used to bed Catholic girls.
It's like the days of virgin sacrifice to appease the gods: Any teenage boy,
no matter how shlubby, could get laid.
It seems to be true though. My grandparents are dead and this horrid
bastard lived to be 101.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-05-16 17:05:53 UTC
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Post by Travoltron
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Travoltron
The good die young.
That was merely a line Billy Joel used to bed Catholic girls.
It's like the days of virgin sacrifice to appease the gods: Any teenage boy,
no matter how shlubby, could get laid.
It seems to be true though. My grandparents are dead and this horrid
bastard lived to be 101.
How young were your grandparents when they died?
Travoltron
2020-05-16 18:33:19 UTC
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Post by Adam H. Kerman
How young were your grandparents when they died?
Well, one grandfather died before I was born. I don't know what age,
maybe 60? The other died at 75.

To be honest, my grandmothers died in their 90s. The one that died
recently was like 95 or 96. We were hoping she'd make it to 100.
Louis Epstein
2020-05-17 04:57:40 UTC
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Post by Travoltron
Post by Adam H. Kerman
How young were your grandparents when they died?
Well, one grandfather died before I was born. I don't know what age,
maybe 60? The other died at 75.
To be honest, my grandmothers died in their 90s. The one that died
recently was like 95 or 96. We were hoping she'd make it to 100.
My grandmothers died at 91 and 97,
my grandfathers (who I never met) at 59 and 65.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
l***@yahoo.com
2020-05-16 16:06:49 UTC
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Where DOES that expression come from, aside from Billy Joel?

It reminds me of when I was talking with my elderly friend, a Polish psychologist, who loves to talk about anything and everything. I said that it made a lot more sense to believe in an afterlife about 1,000 years ago, when living an evil life only made it shorter if you got caught and hanged, but living a virtuous life didn't necessarily mean you would even make it to 40, since men died in "glorious" battle and women died in childbirth - and children died from all sorts of accidents and diseases. Since this seemed horribly unfair, but inevitable, people had to console themselves with the idea of a happy afterlife.

(I also wonder just when doctors figured out that it was a very bad idea for girls to be getting married in their teens, since teen pregnancy puts the lives of both the mother and the newborn at risk. My guess is they didn't quite realize that until the late 19th century. Think of "Romeo and Juliet," when Capulet reveals that he had several children - and they all died except Juliet, whose mother was about 28. I realize the story was far older than Shakespeare, but it's perfectly possible, at least, that even in the 16th century, it was normal for upper-class girls to be married at 14.)


Lenona.
Louis Epstein
2020-05-16 16:35:12 UTC
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Post by l***@yahoo.com
Where DOES that expression come from, aside from Billy Joel?
It reminds me of when I was talking with my elderly friend, a Polish psychologist, who loves to talk about anything and everything. I said that it made a lot more sense to believe in an afterlife about 1,000 years ago, when living an evil life only made it shorter if you got caught and hanged, but living a virtuous life didn't necessarily mean you would even make it to 40, since men died in "glorious" battle and women died in childbirth - and children died from all sorts of accidents and diseases. Since this seemed horribly unfair, but inevitable, people had to console themselves with the idea of a happy afterlife.
(I also wonder just when doctors figured out that it was a very bad idea for
girls to be getting married in their teens, since teen pregnancy puts the lives
of both the mother and the newborn at risk. My guess is they didn't quite
realize that until the late 19th century. Think of "Romeo and Juliet," when Capulet
reveals that he had several children - and they all died except Juliet, whose
mother was about 28. I realize the story was far older than Shakespeare, but
it's perfectly possible, at least, that even in the 16th century, it was normal
for upper-class girls to be married at 14.)
Lenona.
Henry VII of England (the king who ousted Richard III) was born to a
13-year-old widow...who was never able to have another child.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-05-16 17:18:08 UTC
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Post by l***@yahoo.com
Where DOES that expression come from, aside from Billy Joel?
The dead don't sin, do they. It's a religious motivation for murder or
allowing certain people to die due to indifference (which can be murder
in certain circumstances). A world free from sin would have no living
people in it at all.

Five seconds of googing: It comes from the ancient Greeks. Where else?

Whom the gods love dies young.
-- Herodotus, in History

Two favored yout's dragged an oxen cart with their mother in it to a
festival for Hera; the oxen were missing. The mother prayed for Hera's
favor, to reward her two sons with the goddess's greatest gift. Her sons
lay down to sleep and never woke again, preserved forever in youth and
beauty, free of sin.
Post by l***@yahoo.com
. . .
l***@yahoo.com
2020-05-18 17:32:56 UTC
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The first time I read that story, in Edith Hamilton's "Mythology," I thought Hera was punishing the mother for making such a greedy request.

I'm still not sure that the REAL moral of the story is "better to die than to live."


Lenona.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-05-18 18:09:21 UTC
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Post by l***@yahoo.com
The first time I read that story, in Edith Hamilton's "Mythology," I
thought Hera was punishing the mother for making such a greedy request.
Not punishment so much as "Be careful what you ask for."
Post by l***@yahoo.com
I'm still not sure that the REAL moral of the story is "better to die than to live."
Uh, that would be the opposite of the conclusion one was intended to
draw. There are several conclusions: If you have the misfortune of being
the mother or father of a yout' of perfect beauty, absolutely do not
call the gods' attention to your child.

But perfection, purity, and virtue aren't worthy goals in life. It's not
living. It's not living. It's not sustainable. The only way to have
lived as a perfect being is to die young before having sinned, before
getting older.

Beauty as a representation of virtue is a curse.

If you believe what Billy Joel claimed, it was the perfect pickup line
when he was in high school and he got as much as he sought.
l***@yahoo.com
2020-05-18 18:38:40 UTC
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What's confusing is that, in Greek mythology, with very few exceptions, people who die do NOT go to Olympus - or even live with gods.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-05-18 20:07:26 UTC
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Post by l***@yahoo.com
What's confusing is that, in Greek mythology, with very few exceptions,
people who die do NOT go to Olympus - or even live with gods.
Huh? At no point did I think we were discussing anybody's concept of the
afterlife. We were discussing living life, that life is desireable, that
being fearful of not being perfectly virtuous is contrary to the idea of
living a decent life because "only the good die young" and therefore,
the life of someone good was cut very short indeed.

And as I recall from Greek mythology, if the gods did indeed take a
mortal to Olympus after death, it was as a servant and not to give them
the ultimate reward.

For the most part, the Greek gods were venal and capricious.
l***@yahoo.com
2020-05-18 21:05:48 UTC
Permalink
In the case of Ganymede, yes. Slave, rather - in the worst sense.

But mortal Semele was rescued by her son, the god Dionysus, from the dead and brought to Olympus, being the mother of a god (the only mortal whose son was born divine).

And then there was Heracles, who had to die before being made a god.

My point was that, if those whom the gods love die young, why wouldn't the gods want to have them WITH them? How else could death be a reward?


Lenona.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-05-18 23:48:09 UTC
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Post by l***@yahoo.com
In the case of Ganymede, yes. Slave, rather - in the worst sense.
But mortal Semele was rescued by her son, the god Dionysus, from the
dead and brought to Olympus, being the mother of a god (the only mortal
whose son was born divine).
Fair enough.
Post by l***@yahoo.com
And then there was Heracles, who had to die before being made a god.
My point was that, if those whom the gods love die young, why wouldn't
the gods want to have them WITH them? How else could death be a reward?
I suppose a god could preserve you in perfection in a short moment from
your life. That would be a tortuous way to spend the afterlife.
l***@yahoo.com
2020-05-19 00:08:20 UTC
Permalink
And Ganymede didn't even die first. Maybe the idea was that, once you, as a mortal, were there, you weren't supposed to leave, so there was hardly any difference. (The same rule applied to Hades. Very few mortals ever went there in bodily form and returned.)


Lenona.
Louis Epstein
2020-05-17 17:43:02 UTC
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Post by l***@yahoo.com
Where DOES that expression come from, aside from Billy Joel?
I believe it was on this very newsgroup,years and years ago,
that I wrote in reaction to its being quoted,"lots of jerks and punks die young."
Someone responded simply,"Not young enough."

And that made the point...if you lived your life virtuously,
your death therefore deserves to be described as premature.
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Lenona.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-05-17 17:51:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Where DOES that expression come from, aside from Billy Joel?
I believe it was on this very newsgroup,years and years ago,
that I wrote in reaction to its being quoted,"lots of jerks and punks die young."
Someone responded simply,"Not young enough."
And that made the point...if you lived your life virtuously,
your death therefore deserves to be described as premature.
You are describing no one at all.
Big Mongo
2020-05-18 11:24:57 UTC
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Post by l***@yahoo.com
Where DOES that expression come from, aside from Billy Joel?
https://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/19/messages/351.html


Origin: Only the good die young
Posted by S. Ryan on February 25, 2003

In Reply to: Origin: Only the good die young posted by ESC on February 24, 2003

: : Looking for the origin of this phrase.

: THE GOOD DIE YOUNG - " (Whom the gods love dies young; Best go first.) The long history of the saying began with the ancient version, 'Whom the gods love dies young,' and a touching story of how the proverb originated. As told by the Greek historian Herodotus in 'History' (c. 445 B.C.), the story concerns two especially favored youths who, replacing two missing oxen, hitched themselves to a cart and carried their mother to a festival for the goddess Hera. At the temple, the grateful mother asked Hera to reward her sons with the greatest gift anyone might receive, whereupon her sons lay down to sleep and never woke again."

: ".The most recent version, 'The good die young,' can be traced back to William Wordsworth's 'The Excursion' and the lines, 'The good die first,/ And they whose hearts are dry as summer dust burn/ Burn to the socket'." From "Wise Words and Wives' Tales: The Origins, Meanings and Time-Honored Wisdom of Proverbs and Folk Sayings Olde and New" by Stuart Flexner and Doris Flexner (Avon Books, New York, 1993).

: There's a bunch more, but those are the main points.

: Thank you once again for this forum. One of my students was insisting that Billy Joel was the author until I introduced him to this site.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-05-18 16:50:54 UTC
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Post by l***@yahoo.com
Where DOES that expression come from, aside from Billy Joel?
The question was asked by ***@yahoo.com. Nothing I wrote was
quoted in this followup. Please take care with attributions.

That it's attributed to Herodotus is the same thing I found the other
day, just on a different Web site.

I still say Billy Joel was explaining his pick-up technique in lyrics,
trying to impart the lesson of the fable Herodotus was relating.
l***@yahoo.com
2020-05-18 17:50:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
And that made the point...if you lived your life virtuously,
your death therefore deserves to be described as premature.


Well put. That certainly describes anyone who died before age 70 and who had the love and respect of many people both inside and outside the family.

It also reminds me of the legend of Edward I, in 1284. The Welsh prince had just been murdered, and Edward told the Welsh people "if you will submit to me and not fight any more, you will have a prince who was born in Wales, cannot speak a word of English, and never did wrong to man, woman, or child." They agreed. Soon after, they gathered outside Caernarfon Castle in north Wales, demanding their prince.

Edward came out with newborn Edward II in his arms.

(According to Wikipedia, there's no proof that Edward I ever made that statement.)


Lenona.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-05-18 18:14:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Post by Louis Epstein
And that made the point...if you lived your life virtuously,
your death therefore deserves to be described as premature.
Well put. That certainly describes anyone who died before age 70 and who
had the love and respect of many people both inside and outside the
family.
It also reminds me of the legend of Edward I, in 1284. The Welsh prince
had just been murdered, and Edward told the Welsh people "if you will
submit to me and not fight any more, you will have a prince who was born
in Wales, cannot speak a word of English, and never did wrong to man,
woman, or child." They agreed. Soon after, they gathered outside
Caernarfon Castle in north Wales, demanding their prince.
Edward came out with newborn Edward II in his arms.
(According to Wikipedia, there's no proof that Edward I ever made that statement.)
It's an allegorical story that truly makes its point.
Louis Epstein
2020-05-20 19:39:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by Louis Epstein
And that made the point...if you lived your life virtuously,
your death therefore deserves to be described as premature.
Well put. That certainly describes anyone who died before age 70 and who had the love and respect of many people both inside and outside the family.
It also reminds me of the legend of Edward I, in 1284. The Welsh prince had just been murdered, and Edward told the Welsh people "if you will submit to me and not fight any more, you will have a prince who was born in Wales, cannot speak a word of English, and never did wrong to man, woman, or child." They agreed. Soon after, they gathered outside Caernarfon Castle in north Wales, demanding their prince.
Edward came out with newborn Edward II in his arms.
(According to Wikipedia, there's no proof that Edward I ever made that statement.)
Lenona.
Edward II became heir apparent on his brother's death some months after
he was born.(He had over a dozen older siblings,including at least three
brothers,but Alphonso,Earl of Chester---the oldest of the titles traditionally
given to an English heir apparent--was the last surviving brother and none of
the brothers left children.However,four of the older sisters have descendants
to this day...the line of the eldest of them merged with that of an elder
sister to the progenitors of the factions in the Wars of the Roses.
So if Edward I had instituted eldest-child succession in place of male
preference,or even if Edward III had,the English crown,as near as I can
trace it,and assuming historical marriages and births happened nonetheless,
would have descended to the elder brother of the mother of Princess Michael
of Kent...I am not sure which of his children is eldest and would have
inherited on his death).

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

d***@gmail.com
2020-05-16 17:24:38 UTC
Permalink
Travoltron
“The good die young.”

Don’t know what to think.

Good post 😉
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